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  • A Philadelphia judge's ruling says, in practical effect, that a prostitute can't be raped. Find out why this has larger (and scarier) ramifications for all of us. Still no word on murder and arson.



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  • Tagged with : cactus rape , crusader meltdown , epic turd , goes to 11 , i like jazz , rape isnt rape , theft of services

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    Comments 301 through 448 of 448 shown. Page 1 2 3 4
    feepness 1629 2007-10-24 11:42:27.0 login to vote score 2
    sloth: No, Jesus was a hippy. In case you missed my distinction above:

    Jesus: The man with two shirts give one to the man who has none.
    Hippy: The man with two shirts give one to the man who has none. Do you know anybody with two shirts, man?
    Socialist: Everybody gives their shirts to the State, and the State will reallocate them more "fairly." [note: "fairly" means that Party officials will get 10 shirts, and everyone else will get half a shirt]


    7-11: No shirt, no shoes, no service.
    szmike 1151 2007-10-24 11:42:46.0 login to vote score 0
    the crusader: Reminder:

    Don't vote this down, whomever.

    crusader seems awfully proud of it and we should let it stand as a permanent testament.


    gil gigamesh 813 2007-10-24 11:42:55.0 login to vote score 0
    brazil: i just like the idea of running a charge account with a hooker.

    Oh.

    You mean you've never run a tab? You need to get on better terms with your hookers.

    ;)
    igotrhythm 2296 2007-10-24 11:43:05.0 login to vote score 0
    Gak, now I got the facts wrong.

    The 2nd guy pulled the gun, but she still did NOT consent to have sex with the 3rd and 4th person... they raped her. There is a difference.

    Prostitutes get to decide who they are going to have sex with, and what kind of sex they are going to do. She did NOT agree to the 3rd/4th...

    szmike 1151 2007-10-24 11:43:14.0 login to vote score 0
    feepness: 7-11: No shirt, no shoes, no service.

    Read it, learn it, live it.


    feepness 1629 2007-10-24 11:43:15.0 login to vote score 0
    the crusader: Because I'm just arguing the Judge's decision for him. That is hardly 'trolling.'

    I'd agree. You're not trolling. You could be playing devil's advocate.

    Doesn't mean you're not wrong.
    the crusader 2479 2007-10-24 11:43:16.0 login to vote score 1
    faethe: Pretend you're a hooker.

    What do you think?


    She makes ~$100 for a trick. The more tricks, the more cash.

    Right?


    captain hoagie 2288 2007-10-24 11:43:37.0 login to vote score 0
    the crusader: Because I'm just arguing the Judge's decision for him. That is hardly 'trolling.'

    Crusader isn't trolling. Indeed, if anything, I trolled Crusader.

    That being said, it's sort of hard for me to want to protect armed criminals who buy hookers. They are probably drug dealing trash, too.
    the crusader 2479 2007-10-24 11:44:00.0 login to vote score 1
    feepness: I'd agree. You're not trolling. You could be playing devil's advocate.

    Doesn't mean you're not wrong.



    I could be, I don't think so (obviously), but I'm not that one who got nasty about it.

    sarmydoc 125 2007-10-24 11:44:29.0 login to vote score 1
    feepness: It's rape for all four because force is used.

    If they have consensual sex and then don't pay, that's theft of service.


    Here's an interesting question in all of this - did the woman get charged with prostitution as well?

    If she did, then the charges against the leader should be knocked down, while the charges against the other 3 (if they're found) should be upheld.

    If she didn't get charged and convicted of prostitution, then obviously she's innocent of being a prostitute, so no theft of services occurred, leaving the only rational charge to be rape.
    captain hoagie 2288 2007-10-24 11:44:50.0 login to vote score 0
    It's kind of like this...

    Paying a stripper for a lap dance doesn't mean you can force her to give you and your buddies a BJ. At gunpoint.
    faethe 860 2007-10-24 11:44:57.0 login to vote score 0
    feepness: 7-11: No shirt, no shoes, no service.

    +1
    the crusader 2479 2007-10-24 11:45:28.0 login to vote score 0
    captain hoagie: Crusader isn't trolling. Indeed, if anything, I trolled Crusader.

    That being said, it's sort of hard for me to want to protect armed criminals who buy hookers. They are probably drug dealing trash, too.


    Well, the entire group is a pretty sleazy lot. The real question is:

    Do you send four men to prison for 20 years each for banging a hooker who didn't get paid?


    gil gigamesh 813 2007-10-24 11:45:31.0 login to vote score 0
    the crusader: Obviously the Judge thought she had sex with multiple people already, what difference did more make? And if they had offered her cash first, then didn't pay, would it be rape?

    No, see *that* is just nuts. Total, unadulterated crap. And if the judge thought that, she should be thrown off the bench, and preferrably out a window.

    I am guessing the judge just didn't believe the victim: the judge thinks she consented to a gangbang, didn't get paid, and so cried rape.
    captain hoagie 2288 2007-10-24 11:45:37.0 login to vote score 0
    sarmydoc: Here's an interesting question in all of this - did the woman get charged with prostitution as well?

    If she did, then the charges against the leader should be knocked down, while the charges against the other 3 (if they're found) should be upheld.

    If she didn't get charged and convicted of prostitution, then obviously she's innocent of being a prostitute, so no theft of services occurred, leaving the only rational charge to be r**e.


    No...

    Again, she consented to sex.

    Not sex at gunpoint. Not sex with 4 dudes.
    captain hoagie 2288 2007-10-24 11:46:13.0 login to vote score 0
    gil gigamesh: No, see *that* is just nuts. Total, unadulterated crap. And if the judge thought that, she should be thrown off the bench, and preferrably out a window.

    I am guessing the judge just didn't believe the victim: the judge thinks she consented to a g******g, didn't get paid, and so cried r**e.


    If it was consensual, why was it at gunpoint?
    faethe 860 2007-10-24 11:46:23.0 login to vote score 0
    sarmydoc: Here's an interesting question in all of this - did the woman get charged with prostitution as well?

    If she did, then the charges against the leader should be knocked down, while the charges against the other 3 (if they're found) should be upheld.

    If she didn't get charged and convicted of prostitution, then obviously she's innocent of being a prostitute, so no theft of services occurred, leaving the only rational charge to be rape.


    I think that's why the reporter said that the judge was making shit up as she went along. It doesn't make sense. In that case, it would be like calling the cops if someone ripped off your weed. I'd like to see that get prosecuted?
    jafo 1950 2007-10-24 11:47:29.0 login to vote score 0
    the crusader: She makes ~$100 for a trick. The more tricks, the more cash.

    Right?


    But there are some jobs people in other industries won't do. Either on principles, lack of available supplies, for whatever reason. Doesn't justify you pointing a gun at them because that is the work they do and have done because you want satisfaction now.
    sloth 222 2007-10-24 11:47:31.0 login to vote score 2
    the crusader: She makes ~$100 for a trick. The more tricks, the more cash.

    Right?


    She still has the right to refuse service, just like any other business.

    If you kidnap a flight instructor and force him to teach you how to fly a plane, it's still kidnapping.

    If you corner a boxer in a dark alley and beat the crap out of him, it's still battery.

    There is no implied consent just because the person ordinarily performs a similar activity for pay.
    meta 1442 2007-10-24 11:47:35.0 login to vote score 0
    jafo: The main problem is he doesn't seem to understand that a prostitute isn't always a prostitute.

    Oh, that's just one of his problems. He also doesn't seem to understand that businesses do not *have* to do business with anyone. If a shopkeeper decides he doesn't like you, he can refuse to sell to you. Similarly, if a ho decides she doesn't like your skanky ass, she can refuse to have sex with you, no matter how much money you offer.

    A business can also do business with you and then decide not to any longer. For example, they can accept an offer to exchange a $5 bill for a magazine, and still have the right to refuse an offer to exchange a $5 bill for an HDTV. If you shoot the guy and take the HDTV, it isn't "theft of services" or "breach of contract", it's murder.

    So even if you start out treating the whole thing as a business situation, he's still flat out wrong. Even if the prostitute did consent to having sex with the first guy for money, that still doesn't mean there was any kind of business relationship, real or implied, with the other guys. So there is absolutely zero basis for treating their rape of her as a business transaction gone bad.
    swami-on-rye 192 2007-10-24 11:48:34.0 login to vote score 2
    igotrhythm: Prostitutes get to decide who they are going to have sex with


    the crusader 2479 2007-10-24 11:48:35.0 login to vote score 0
    captain hoagie: If it was consensual, why was it at gunpoint?

    Better question:

    Who do believe more/less?

    The hooker who got stiffed or the guys who supposedly 'raped' her?

    Ewwww.... Judge had a shitty case handed to him. Nothing but lying in that group.


    grahams 5 2007-10-24 11:48:41.0 login to vote score 0
    faethe: I think that's why the reporter said that the judge was making shit up as she went along. It doesn't make sense. In that case, it would be like calling the cops if someone ripped off your weed. I'd like to see that get prosecuted?

    Can you bring civil suit against someone for ripping you off in a drug deal? If we assume that you were a drug dealer, you'd been caught and sentenced in a sting, and in the course of the sting someone else took the opportunity to screw you over on a business arrangement - you'd have grounds to sue, but could you?

    Since you'd already been caught and sentenced for your criminal acts, you wouldn't face any additional trouble?
    gil gigamesh 813 2007-10-24 11:48:53.0 login to vote score 0
    ...but then, on re-reading the article, here is where I am probably wrong:

    The judge dropped the charges before trial. IOW, she decided, as a matter of law, that the victim wasn't raped.

    Which means that she didn't make a credibility determination at all. She felt it wasn't legally possible, under the circumstances, for the victim to have been raped.

    Hm. Maybe you are right, Crusader.
    captain hoagie 2288 2007-10-24 11:49:05.0 login to vote score 0
    Also, let's look at the big picture

    - Armed dudes. Probably city trash urban thugs.
    - Hooker who is trash... but what is the difference between being a hooker and a porn star anyway?

    Why is it more important to protect the rights of armed criminals then it is to protect a women who sells sex? It's trash all around. However, late at night, I'm WAY more concerned about armed thugged out drug dealers then I am a hooker giving BJs for coke money.

    Meh.
    the crusader 2479 2007-10-24 11:49:19.0 login to vote score 0
    swami-on-rye:

    (tilts head sideways)

    huh?


    mike_bolton 913 2007-10-24 11:49:51.0 login to vote score 0
    THEFT OF SERVICES!

    sarmydoc 125 2007-10-24 11:50:01.0 login to vote score 0
    captain hoagie: No...

    Again, she consented to sex.

    Not sex at gunpoint. Not sex with 4 dudes.


    She consented to engage in an illegal activity of selling sex. If the court upholds that as what happened, then the first guy, there's some basis for the argument of letting off the first guy on armed robbery charges. The other 3 guys are absolutely rapists though.
    captain hoagie 2288 2007-10-24 11:50:10.0 login to vote score 0
    grahams: Can you bring civil suit against someone for ripping you off in a drug deal? If we assume that you were a drug dealer, you'd been caught and sentenced in a sting, and in the course of the sting someone else took the opportunity to screw you over on a business arrangement - you'd have grounds to sue, but could you?

    Since you'd already been caught and sentenced for your criminal acts, you wouldn't face any additional trouble?


    No.

    It would be a breach of contract for an illegal contract. Contracts to do illegal things are unenforceable, mainly for policy reasons...
    jafo 1950 2007-10-24 11:50:13.0 login to vote score 0
    the crusader: Well, the entire group is a pretty sleazy lot. The real question is:

    Do you send four men to prison for 20 years each for banging a hooker who didn't get paid?


    Yes, if she wasn't hooking at the time. People are able to stop their jobs and live their lives.

    If she said "no, I'm not doing it. That's not a job I want to do." Then it's rape. Every business establishment I've been in has the sign "we reserve the right to refuse service".
    gil gigamesh 813 2007-10-24 11:50:36.0 login to vote score 0
    captain hoagie: If it was consensual, why was it at gunpoint?

    Maybe the judge didn't believe the part about the gun.

    But then, see my above post. I've changed my mind.
    anaxibios 966 2007-10-24 11:50:57.0 login to vote score 0
    captain hoagie: Then again, I'm biased and would like to see all of the parties go to jail for a very long time. Because criminals who use guns are trash and deserve no legal protection.

    Yes, they do. Everybdoy deserves equal protection under the law. Otherwise you open that whole can of worms the crusader did by suggesting that some, because of their actions, do not deserve to be accorded the same basic rights as everyone else.
    szmike 1151 2007-10-24 11:51:12.0 login to vote score 1
    Jesus: The man with two shirts should give one to the man who has none.
    George W Bush: The turr'rists hate us for our two shirts.
    Al Gore: The man with two shirts should give one to the man who has none. **selects shirt from closet filled with 1000 shirts**
    Bill O'Reilly: We had to have security throw Jesus out of the studio. He was that out of control.
    Michael Moore: Do you have this shirt in XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXL size?
    faethe 860 2007-10-24 11:51:18.0 login to vote score 0
    grahams: Can you bring civil suit against someone for ripping you off in a drug deal? If we assume that you were a drug dealer, you'd been caught and sentenced in a sting, and in the course of the sting someone else took the opportunity to screw you over on a business arrangement - you'd have grounds to sue, but could you?

    Since you'd already been caught and sentenced for your criminal acts, you wouldn't face any additional trouble?


    Lol yeah I think so. I think you could also sue for prosecution. I'm thinking this is not going to work, unless you're a medicinal marjuana dealer, or someone that's licensed. It seems that the only peoplelegally able to seize your pot are da cops. Perhaps if you could convince them that someone is horning in on their monopoly they would care?
    sunofsam 241 2007-10-24 11:51:47.0 login to vote score 0
    gil gigamesh: Maybe the judge didn't believe the part about the gun.

    But then, see my above post. I've changed my mind.


    The actual facts are immaterial to the discussion at hand. the crusader believes it is impossible to rape a prostitute.
    gil gigamesh 813 2007-10-24 11:52:20.0 login to vote score 0
    the crusader: Better question:

    Who do believe more/less?

    The hooker who got stiffed or the guys who supposedly 'raped' her?

    Ewwww.... Judge had a shitty case handed to him. Nothing but lying in that group.


    The judge apparently dismissed the rape charges before trial. The credibility issue, which admittedly would have been a major factor, never even came up.
    jrhoward 65 2007-10-24 11:52:21.0 login to vote score 0
    the crusader: She wasn't gang raped. It was theft of services, accoring to the Judge. You may not like the decision that was handed down, but that is the result. And the decision did indeed set a precedent.

    Do you care to back up your statement earlier that just because someone puts something in a woman's vagina without her permission that it doesn't mean it's rape?
    gil gigamesh 813 2007-10-24 11:53:11.0 login to vote score 0
    sunofsam: The actual facts are immaterial to the discussion at hand. the crusader believes it is impossible to rape a prostitute.

    Yes, but I am trying to steer this conversation out of Whoopwhoopwackadoodlecrazeetownland and back into reality.
    jafo 1950 2007-10-24 11:54:53.0 login to vote score 0
    the crusader: Better question:

    Who do believe more/less?

    The hooker who got stiffed or the guys who supposedly 'raped' her?

    Ewwww.... Judge had a shitty case handed to him. Nothing but lying in that group.


    The judge would have been better off saying that instead.
    the crusader 2479 2007-10-24 11:55:39.0 login to vote score 0
    gil gigamesh: The judge apparently dismissed the rape charges before trial. The credibility issue, which admittedly would have been a major factor, never even came up.

    The better course would have been if the Judge had allowed the case to go to trial, and if the Judge was right, the hooker would have been exposed as angry, unpaid merchant as opposed to a victim of a legitimate rape.

    Judge Deni's problem is, she jumped the gun.


    captain hoagie 2288 2007-10-24 11:55:40.0 login to vote score 0
    gil gigamesh: Maybe the judge didn't believe the part about the gun.

    But then, see my above post. I've changed my mind.


    Yeah, in all fairness, Jill Porter may be getting the story wrong. I can't find anything acurate (such as a written opinion) except these goddamn feminist blogs.

    I will reserve further judgment regarding the merits. HOwever, going after the DA is unfair.
    szmike 1151 2007-10-24 11:56:33.0 login to vote score 2
    gil gigamesh: Yes, but I am trying to steer this conversation out of Whoopwhoopwackadoodlecrazeetownland and back into reality.


    devin172 2105 2007-10-24 11:56:38.0 login to vote score 0
    osirisothedead: The judge was a "her".


    That was an interesting assumption he made there.
    osirisothedead 1858 2007-10-24 11:56:41.0 login to vote score 0
    the crusader: Ewwww.... Judge had a s**tty case handed to him.

    HER. The Judge was female. Did you read the article?
    grahams 5 2007-10-24 11:57:03.0 login to vote score 0
    captain hoagie: No.

    It would be a breach of contract for an illegal contract. Contracts to do illegal things are unenforceable, mainly for policy reasons...


    ahh true - forgot about that
    gil gigamesh 813 2007-10-24 11:57:09.0 login to vote score 0
    captain hoagie: No.

    It would be a breach of contract for an illegal contract. Contracts to do illegal things are unenforceable, mainly for policy reasons...


    Correct. Contracts for an illegal cause are void. Contra bones mores, dem der lawyer folks calls it.
    sarmydoc 125 2007-10-24 11:57:24.0 login to vote score 0
    the crusader:
    Judge Deni's problem is, she jumped the gun.


    Not sure that figure of speech is a good choice in a discussion of armed rape.
    jrhoward 65 2007-10-24 11:57:34.0 login to vote score 3
    the crusader: Obviously the Judge thought she had sex with multiple people already, what difference did more make?

    So if you have sex with your wife, then she leaves and gets raped in front of your house, then it's ok because "what difference did more make?"
    faethe 860 2007-10-24 11:58:11.0 login to vote score 0
    gil gigamesh: Correct. Contracts for an illegal cause are void. Contra bones mores, dem der lawyer folks calls it.

    That's what I thought. Didn't know da words, though :p
    the crusader 2479 2007-10-24 11:58:30.0 login to vote score 0
    osirisothedead: HER. The Judge was female. Did you read the article?

    The fact the judge is a her makes me believe that Hooker in the case is a lying tramp. Women see through other women far better than men do. A woman cries in front of man, yells 'rape' immediately the lynch mob is formed.


    captain hoagie 2288 2007-10-24 11:58:31.0 login to vote score 0
    faethe: Lol yeah I think so. I think you could also sue for prosecution. I'm thinking this is not going to work, unless you're a medicinal marjuana dealer, or someone that's licensed. It seems that the only peoplelegally able to seize your pot are da cops. Perhaps if you could convince them that someone is horning in on their monopoly they would care?

    Are you seriously saying that you could bring a civil action for a contract bartering for illegal services? That the courts would enforce? What interest would the courts have in promoting illegal activity?

    I don't even think it would work for the medical marijuana dealer, since marijuana is still illegal under federal law, though decriminalized in some states.
    faethe 860 2007-10-24 11:58:36.0 login to vote score 0
    jrhoward: So if you have sex with your wife, then she leaves and gets raped in front of your house, then it's ok because "what difference did more make?"

    +1
    the crusader 2479 2007-10-24 11:59:00.0 login to vote score 0
    sarmydoc: Not sure that figure of speech is a good choice in a discussion of armed rape.

    HA!

    oops.


    gil gigamesh 813 2007-10-24 11:59:30.0 login to vote score 0
    captain hoagie: Yeah, in all fairness, Jill Porter may be getting the story wrong. I can't find anything acurate (such as a written opinion) except these goddamn feminist blogs.

    I thought the same thing. That decision would be a bit odd if its true. I'm not convinced its at all accurate.

    And the source was pretty inflammatory and hardly unbiased.

    I will reserve further judgment regarding the merits. HOwever, going after the DA is unfair.

    Ditto.


    faethe 860 2007-10-24 11:59:43.0 login to vote score 0
    captain hoagie: Are you seriously saying that you could bring a civil action for a contract bartering for illegal services? That the courts would enforce? What interest would the courts have in promoting illegal activity?

    I don't even think it would work for the medical marijuana dealer, since marijuana is still illegal under federal law, though decriminalized in some states.


    Fed court, no.

    Civil - possibly.

    Depends on where and when and state law. The state may just be *ignoring* federal law.
    jrhoward 65 2007-10-24 12:00:08.0 login to vote score 0
    the crusader: Because I'm just arguing the Judge's decision for him.

    The judge was a woman. And since I know how little you think of them, I expect you to reverse your position now.
    captain hoagie 2288 2007-10-24 12:00:16.0 login to vote score 0
    The main reason courts bother to enforce private contracts is policy based (i.e. makes the economy run smoothly, predictably, prevents people from getting ripped off). Allegedly this promotes business.

    So if you enforced illegal contracts, you're basically saying you want illegal activities to run more smoothly.
    gil gigamesh 813 2007-10-24 12:00:21.0 login to vote score 0
    faethe: That's what I thought. Didn't know da words, though :p

    No sweat. It helps that I'm a lawyer.
    sarmydoc 125 2007-10-24 12:00:53.0 login to vote score 0
    jrhoward: So if you have sex with your wife, then she leaves and gets raped in front of your house, then it's ok because "what difference did more make?"

    Absolutely! My seed's way in front of the rapist's, so any offspring will actually be mine and not bastards. If nothing else, I"m the one at fault because I let her out of the kitchen/bedroom.
    mike_bolton 913 2007-10-24 12:00:59.0 login to vote score 0
    the crusader: The fact the judge is a her makes me believe that Hooker in the case is a lying tramp. Women see through other women far better than men do. A woman cries in front of man, yells 'rape' immediately the lynch mob is formed.

    wow.

    so in the last week you've proven yourself a bigot and a sexist.
    captain hoagie 2288 2007-10-24 12:02:06.0 login to vote score 0
    faethe: Fed court, no.

    Civil - possibly.

    Depends on where and when and state law. The state may just be *ignoring* federal law.


    Are you talking about the medical marijuana dealer? That would be interesting. A state ignoring federal law for policy reasons chooses to enforce contracts with medical marijuana dealers based on the same policy reasons.
    jrhoward 65 2007-10-24 12:02:24.0 login to vote score 0
    igotrhythm: Gak, now I got the facts wrong.

    The 2nd guy pulled the gun, but she still did NOT consent to have sex with the 3rd and 4th person... they raped her. There is a difference.

    Prostitutes get to decide who they are going to have sex with, and what kind of sex they are going to do. She did NOT agree to the 3rd/4th...


    And her consent with the first two is no longer valid once the gun comes out, since she's under duress, and can't legally consent anyway.
    jrhoward 65 2007-10-24 12:04:09.0 login to vote score 3
    the crusader: Do you send four men to prison for 20 years each for banging a hooker who didn't get paid?

    Yes, you send four people to prison for 20 years for gang raping a woman at gunpoint, regardless of her occupation.
    andstuff 1600 2007-10-24 12:04:42.0 login to vote score 0
    jrhoward: So if you have sex with your wife, then she leaves and gets raped in front of your house, then it's ok because "what difference did more make?"

    That's irrelevant in the crudaders world. Prostitutes are inhuman products used for sex. Consent doesn't apply.
    the crusader 2479 2007-10-24 12:05:38.0 login to vote score 0
    mike_bolton: wow.

    so in the last week you've proven yourself a bigot and a sexist.



    On the contrary, I listen closely regarding the advice of women win regards to other women.

    The ones I know make no excuses for each other.

    Men on the other hand...

    polydactylkatze 641 2007-10-24 12:08:10.0 login to vote score 0
    the crusader: In my case, its this:

    Ross.
    swami-on-rye 192 2007-10-24 12:08:47.0 login to vote score 0
    gil gigamesh: The judge dropped the charges before trial. IOW, she decided, as a matter of law, that the victim wasn't raped.

    Which means that she didn't make a credibility determination at all. She felt it wasn't legally possible, under the circumstances, for the victim to have been raped.


    I am literally bewildered how you see that this matters. Which one is true? Sincerely asking.
    - A judge makes the determination, and because it's a judge, that determination must be correct.

    - A prostitute is not a human being capable of being raped. The only crime that can be committed against a prostitute is theft of services.

    - No credibility determination ever got made. Therefore we never make a determination about whether the claims about the gun are true. The only issue under consideration is whether or not payment took place because a prostitute is not much different than a vending machine or hot dog stand: i.e. the SOLE crime that can be committed against this nonperson is robbery.

    ?
    mike_bolton 913 2007-10-24 12:09:41.0 login to vote score 0
    the crusader: On the contrary, I listen closely regarding the advice of women win regards to other women.

    The ones I know make no excuses for each other.

    Men on the other hand...


    broad.sweeping.geralization.
    the crusader 2479 2007-10-24 12:11:04.0 login to vote score 0
    mike_bolton: broad.sweeping.geralization.

    The ones I know make no excuses for each other.

    Can you read?


    anaxibios 966 2007-10-24 12:11:15.0 login to vote score 0
    gil gigamesh: Correct. Contracts for an illegal cause are void. Contra bones mores, dem der lawyer folks calls it.

    I'm willing to go out on a limb and say it must be bonos mores...
    captain hoagie 2288 2007-10-24 12:11:30.0 login to vote score 0
    I am willing to bet what happened is this judge has become sick of prosecuting rape cases where it turns out the john just didn't pay the hooker but the sex was consensual. The hooker gets angry and calls the police, alleging rape.

    She just chose a bad case to apply it to.
    captain hoagie 2288 2007-10-24 12:12:20.0 login to vote score 0
    Also, so much goddamn partisan hackery has made it damn near impossible to find anything more reliable then Jill Porter's third hand account of the story.

    I really don't want to hear NOWs spin on it, I want to hear what actually happened.
    swami-on-rye 192 2007-10-24 12:12:23.0 login to vote score 0
    BY THE WAY.

    From http://womensissues.about.com/od/rapesexualassault/a/philly_rape.htm

    "Held in Contempt
    The story was reenacted all over again four days later when another woman - a 23-year-old - was gang-raped by Gindraw and friends in the exact same manner.

    Assistant District Attorney Rich DeSipio was all set to present both cases. But after Judge Deni threw out the first one, he declined to go forward with the second victim's case, saying "I wouldn’t demean her in that way." He expressed his belief that Judge Deni's moral contempt for the prostitute was at the heart of the ruling, stating, "Certainly if a jury wants to make that judgment, they're entitled to. But for a judge to make a judgment on a human being - I've never seen that before."

    A District Attorney disagreed with the judge. It's not like legal minds can only come to one conclusion in this case.
    the crusader 2479 2007-10-24 12:12:32.0 login to vote score 0
    captain hoagie: I am willing to bet what happened is this judge has become sick of prosecuting rape cases where it turns out the john just didn't pay the hooker but the sex was consensual. The hooker gets angry and calls the police, alleging rape.

    She just chose a bad case to apply it to.


    That would be my guess. She, the Judge, just handled the situation poorly.


    mike_bolton 913 2007-10-24 12:12:44.0 login to vote score 0
    the crusader: The ones I know make no excuses for each other.

    Can you read?


    still broad generalization.

    and the ones you know cannot be compared to a JUDGE.
    anaxibios 966 2007-10-24 12:14:03.0 login to vote score 0
    the crusader: The fact the judge is a her makes me believe that Hooker in the case is a lying tramp. Women see through other women far better than men do. A woman cries in front of man, yells 'rape' immediately the lynch mob is formed.

    I'm speechless.
    brazil 316 2007-10-24 12:14:15.0 login to vote score 0
    gil gigamesh: Oh.

    You mean you've never run a tab? You need to get on better terms with your hookers.

    ;)


    best to avoid credit cards... so it's been cash and carry.
    gil gigamesh 813 2007-10-24 12:14:25.0 login to vote score 0
    swami-on-rye: I am literally bewildered how you see that this matters. Which one is true? Sincerely asking.
    - A judge makes the determination, and because it's a judge, that determination must be correct.

    - A prostitute is not a human being capable of being raped. The only crime that can be committed against a prostitute is theft of services.

    - No credibility determination ever got made. Therefore we never make a determination about whether the claims about the gun are true. The only issue under consideration is whether or not payment took place because a prostitute is not much different than a vending machine or hot dog stand: i.e. the SOLE crime that can be committed against this nonperson is robbery.

    ?


    You are misreading me, I think. I am not saying either of those things. I am saying -- interpreting -- what (according to tfa) happened.

    That does not mean I agree with it. Quite the opposite.

    IF the judge tried the case, listened to the testimony, and simply chose not to believe the hookers story about the gun, or about the sequence of events, or anything else, and dismissed the rape charges, THAT would be defensible.

    If the judge simply decided a hooker can't be raped, that is absolutely not defensible.

    Is that more clear?
    the crusader 2479 2007-10-24 12:14:27.0 login to vote score 0
    mike_bolton: still broad generalization.

    and the ones you know cannot be compared to a JUDGE.


    Gee, do you think MAYBE I know a few females in the legally community?

    And I'm not talking about Officer Sugar Tites who wrote me a ticket, ok?


    faethe 860 2007-10-24 12:14:40.0 login to vote score 0
    gil gigamesh: No sweat. It helps that I'm a lawyer.

    Oh no shit!

    **makes note**
    swami-on-rye 192 2007-10-24 12:15:11.0 login to vote score 0
    the crusader: That would be my guess. She, the Judge, just handled the situation poorly.

    I think you're thisclose to redemption. Handled the situation poorly in what way?
    brazil 316 2007-10-24 12:15:48.0 login to vote score 3
    swami-on-rye:

    i kinda want to fuck that coke machine in the ass. i have $1.50.
    faethe 860 2007-10-24 12:16:06.0 login to vote score 0
    captain hoagie: Are you talking about the medical marijuana dealer? That would be interesting. A state ignoring federal law for policy reasons chooses to enforce contracts with medical marijuana dealers based on the same policy reasons.

    I think it would be swell if we could find such a case and exploit it :p

    You know, it occurs to me that if the judge wanted to go the 'theft of services' route, that Nevada must have already had plenty of cases just like this one...
    swami-on-rye 192 2007-10-24 12:16:23.0 login to vote score 0
    gil gigamesh: You are misreading me, I think. I am saying -- interpreting

    Ok, understood
    anaxibios 966 2007-10-24 12:16:29.0 login to vote score 0
    the crusader: Gee, do you think MAYBE I know a few females in the legally community?

    Not really, no.


    captain hoagie 2288 2007-10-24 12:17:08.0 login to vote score 0
    the crusader: That would be my guess. She, the Judge, just handled the situation poorly.

    That's the problem in these situations. It's trash vs. trash. All are probably drug users with criminal records.

    Judges are more interested in protecting law abiding citizens from criminals then criminals from other criminals. Most homicides involve drug dealers shooting other drug dealers over bad transactions or in retaliation. Prostitutes who want to see their drug dealers in jail for ripping them off alleging rape... at some point, judges just say "good riddance."

    However, I think she chose the wrong situation for this. Further, the media is going to have a field day due to the sensitive nature of rape.
    mike_bolton 913 2007-10-24 12:17:24.0 login to vote score 0
    the crusader: Gee, do you think MAYBE I know a few females in the legally community?

    And I'm not talking about Officer Sugar Tites who wrote me a ticket, ok?


    no, i think you are full of shit, actually.

    wtf is the legally community?
    gil gigamesh 813 2007-10-24 12:17:59.0 login to vote score 0
    anaxibios: I'm willing to go out on a limb and say it must be bonos mores...

    Oh... yes, it is. Didn't realize I typed "bones"
    igotrhythm 2296 2007-10-24 12:18:15.0 login to vote score 1
    I feel so sorry for crusader's wife if he has one.

    He must look at her as a prostitute ... she gives up her services -- and his payment is the ability to be in the company of him, and have a place to live, food to eat, etc...
    captain hoagie 2288 2007-10-24 12:18:46.0 login to vote score 0
    faethe: I think it would be swell if we could find such a case and exploit it :p

    You know, it occurs to me that if the judge wanted to go the 'theft of services' route, that Nevada must have already had plenty of cases just like this one...


    A very interesting thought.

    Though I would imagine it is much more contained in Nevada. The johns probably pay upfront, there is tons of security, etc.
    the crusader 2479 2007-10-24 12:18:49.0 login to vote score 0
    captain hoagie: That's the problem in these situations. It's trash vs. trash. All are probably drug users with criminal records.

    Judges are more interested in protecting law abiding citizens from criminals then criminals from other criminals. Most homicides involve drug dealers shooting other drug dealers over bad transactions or in retaliation. Prostitutes who want to see their drug dealers in jail for ripping them off alleging rape... at some point, judges just say "good riddance."

    However, I think she chose the wrong situation for this. Further, the media is going to have a field day due to the sensitive nature of rape.


    Agreed. Totally.


    gil gigamesh 813 2007-10-24 12:18:54.0 login to vote score 0
    faethe: Oh no shit!

    **makes note**


    That'll be $175.
    clifton 1850 2007-10-24 12:19:07.0 login to vote score 0
    igotrhythm: I feel so sorry for crusader's wife if he has one.

    He must look at her as a prostitute ... she gives up her services -- and his payment is the ability to be in the company of him, and have a place to live, food to eat, etc...


    Under another login, he said that he was divorced.
    osirisothedead 1858 2007-10-24 12:20:23.0 login to vote score 0
    clifton: Under another login, he said that he was divorced.

    There's a surprise.
    faethe 860 2007-10-24 12:24:22.0 login to vote score 0
    captain hoagie: A very interesting thought.

    Though I would imagine it is much more contained in Nevada. The johns probably pay upfront, there is tons of security, etc.


    I saw a documentary om legal brothels in Nevada (forget what it is called but you can watch it on netflicks) and there is a problem with under-reporting of criminal activities in brothels. Mostly because of other illegal activity that goes on in brothels. There are a great many of them that lock the women in at night so they don't leave. In the daytime they are overseen by guards meant to keep them in the brothels. This was an issue the National Organization of Women wanted to start addressing a few years ago. NOW used to marginalize sex workers, which of course made it easier to exploit them.
    igotrhythm 2296 2007-10-24 12:28:48.0 login to vote score 0
    osirisothedead: There's a surprise.

    Well, now there's nothing wrong with being divorced...

    \I'll be divorced in 30 days...
    captain hoagie 2288 2007-10-24 12:30:43.0 login to vote score 0
    faethe: I saw a doc*mentary om legal brothels in Nevada (forget what it is called but you can watch it on netflicks) and there is a problem with under-reporting of criminal activities in brothels. Mostly because of other illegal activity that goes on in brothels. There are a great many of them that lock the women in at night so they don't leave. In the daytime they are overseen by guards meant to keep them in the brothels. This was an issue the National Organization of Women wanted to start addressing a few years ago. NOW used to marginalize sex workers, which of course made it easier to exploit them.

    Huh... very interesting.

    Proponents of legalizing prostitution make it sound like Nevada is a great place and everyone is happy. I've never looked into the issue, because thankfully, I've never needed to. ;)

    /lots of delis around for the cap'
    //with lots fresh meat, awww yea baby. Y'all enjoy this hoagie drenched in mayo? Feel that in your mouth? So spicy, girl. Goddamn, it hurts so good.
    notsuebhoney 76 2007-10-24 12:31:59.0 login to vote score 1
    The way I see it is, only a person who has raped wouldn't consider this rape.
    sarmydoc 125 2007-10-24 12:37:04.0 login to vote score 0
    notsuebhoney: The way I see it is, only a person who has raped wouldn't consider this rape.

    . . .

    Your logic escapes me.
    willywanka 274 2007-10-24 12:37:16.0 login to vote score 0
    captain hoagie: I am willing to bet what happened is this judge has become sick of prosecuting r**e cases where it turns out the john just didn't pay the hooker but the sex was consensual. The hooker gets angry and calls the police, alleging r**e.

    She just chose a bad case to apply it to.


    Judges don't prosecute. (though that makes for a fairly amusing freudian slip).
    notsuebhoney 76 2007-10-24 12:37:48.0 login to vote score 1
    That's because it's sarcasm. :D
    polydactylkatze 641 2007-10-24 12:38:04.0 login to vote score 1
    notsuebhoney: The way I see it is, only a person who has raped wouldn't consider this rape.

    Or someone who would, given means, motive, and opportunity.
    faethe 860 2007-10-24 12:39:28.0 login to vote score 0
    captain hoagie: Huh... very interesting.

    Proponents of legalizing prostitution make it sound like Nevada is a great place and everyone is happy. I've never looked into the issue, because thankfully, I've never needed to. ;)

    /lots of delis around for the cap'
    //with lots fresh meat, awww yea baby. Y'all enjoy this hoagie drenched in mayo? Feel that in your mouth? So spicy, girl. Goddamn, it hurts so good.


    Most sex-trade issues are pretty nasty once you start to interview people. Because prostitution is illegal, or a sin or some bizzare shit, it stays in the dark. Makes it easy to exploit people. Like what are you going to do - run to the cops? In New Zealand (and Australia) Prostitution is a vocation. The workers get the same protections others do. In Australia they actually sell shares in the brothels, which kinda freaks me out a bit. But yeah, you know - makes sense. It's a public business. Why not trade stocks?


    captain hoagie 2288 2007-10-24 12:40:17.0 login to vote score 0
    willywanka: Judges don't prosecute. (though that makes for a fairly amusing freudian slip).

    Yes, often overzealous DAs trying to make a career for themselves prosecute. The judges then throw their cases out.

    notsuebhoney: The way I see it is, only a person who has r**ed wouldn't consider this r**e.

    In all fairness, we haven't been given the full story. I certainly can't find it.

    What if the prostitute agreed to have sex with the 4, and then at the end, they were like "ha ha, we're not paying you!" And then Jill Porter inaccurately transcribed the event based on the DA's account?

    Also, you have a little hoagie on your lip...
    igotrhythm 2296 2007-10-24 12:42:09.0 login to vote score 0
    If someone has not expressly invited your dick to invade her vagina, -- and somehow it manages to get in there... you should be very lucky to be alive after she regain consciousness, become untied or whatever it is you had to do to her to get in there...




    notsuebhoney 76 2007-10-24 12:43:56.0 login to vote score 0
    captain hoagie: Yes, often overzealous DAs trying to make a career for themselves prosecute. The judges then throw their cases out.



    In all fairness, we haven't been given the full story. I certainly can't find it.

    What if the prostitute agreed to have sex with the 4, and then at the end, they were like "ha ha, we're not paying you!" And then Jill Porter inaccurately transcribed the event based on the DA's account?

    Also, you have a little hoagie on your lip...


    I need to guess your alt ;P
    sloth 222 2007-10-24 12:44:46.0 login to vote score 0
    igotrhythm: Well, now there's nothing wrong with being divorced...

    \I'll be divorced in 30 days...


    You don't say...
    igotrhythm 2296 2007-10-24 12:45:27.0 login to vote score 0
    IF in fact this is a payment-sitch gone bad, and she agreed to have sex with all 4 guys (and did) then they didn't pay her... yeah, clearly she wasn't raped. But we all will never know what happened.




    igotrhythm 2296 2007-10-24 12:46:38.0 login to vote score 0
    sloth: You don't say...

    Well, I thought I did... *giggle*
    notsuebhoney 76 2007-10-24 12:47:20.0 login to vote score 0
    igotrhythm: IF in fact this is a payment-sitch gone bad, and she agreed to have sex with all 4 guys (and did) then they didn't pay her... yeah, clearly she wasn't raped. But we all will never know what happened.

    Clearly I cannot drink the wine in front of you :P
    ratfucker 470 2007-10-24 12:47:34.0 login to vote score 7
    the crusader: Well, seeing as you're taking every single one of those comments out of context...



    igotrhythm 2296 2007-10-24 12:48:43.0 login to vote score 0
    notsuebhoney: Clearly I cannot drink the wine in front of you :P

    *giggles*
    captain hoagie 2288 2007-10-24 12:49:53.0 login to vote score 7
    notsuebhoney: Clearly I cannot drink the wine in front of you :P



    Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.
    notsuebhoney 76 2007-10-24 12:50:31.0 login to vote score 0
    captain hoagie

    +1
    modi 97 2007-10-24 12:51:31.0 login to vote score 1
    And I'm ready to give out the awards for this thread....


    And the Postie for best refutation of a troll goes to.... The envelope please! Sloth!

    And the Postie for best stfu goes to.... Ratfucker!


    And last, but not least, the Postie for where the fuck did that come from goes to.... szmike for the dadaist.
    igotrhythm 2296 2007-10-24 12:51:31.0 login to vote score 0
    captain hoagie

    +1 as well ...


    modi 97 2007-10-24 12:51:55.0 login to vote score 0
    Postie? Or would awards for posting on this site be called Bannies? Clownies?

    Herpes?
    ratfucker 470 2007-10-24 12:53:39.0 login to vote score 0
    modi: And I'm ready to give out the awards for this thread....


    And the Postie for best refutation of a troll goes to.... The envelope please! Sloth!

    And the Postie for best stfu goes to.... Ratfucker!


    And last, but not least, the Postie for where the fuck did that come from goes to.... szmike for the dadaist.


    Give an honourary mention to Meta for the best STFU since he's the one who initially put those three posts together in perspective.
    igotrhythm 2296 2007-10-24 12:53:46.0 login to vote score 0
    Herpes Villechaize
    modi 97 2007-10-24 12:54:20.0 login to vote score 1
    ratfucker: Give an honourary mention to Meta for the best STFU since he's the one who initially put those three posts together in perspective.

    Best Support STFU goes to Meta.
    modi 97 2007-10-24 12:54:48.0 login to vote score 0
    er.. Best Supporting STFU.

    \mental note: don't uncheck preview, even on short posts...
    captain hoagie 2288 2007-10-24 12:56:06.0 login to vote score 0
    modi: And I'm ready to give out the awards for this thread....


    And the Postie for best refutation of a troll goes to.... The envelope please! Sloth!

    And the Postie for best stfu goes to.... Ratf**ker!

    Goddamnit, I don't even get an honorable mention for this:

    Now, this is a story all about how
    bN flipped-turned upside down
    And I liked to take a minute
    Just sit right there
    I'll tell you how Crusader became the prince of a town called bTOWN

    On Fark.com, born and raised
    Trolling is how he spends most of his days
    Hatin' and baitin' acting like a fool
    On the internets acting like a tool
    When a couple of libs
    Who were up to no good
    Startin makin trouble in his neighborhood
    He got in one lil flamewar and my Drew got scared
    He said 'You're movin' with your auntie and uncle, I'm a millionaire

    Crusader whistled for a cab and when it came near
    The license plate said GRAHAMS and there were hoes in the rear
    If anything he said "Can I put it in there?"
    The girls said 'No forget it' - but Crusader don't care

    He pulled out of the vaggoos and ended his date
    Yelled to the womens 'Yo homes smell ya later'
    He looked at my kingdom
    He was finally there
    Sitting in jail, with all the other queers

    :-P

    /proud of my work
    And last, but not least, the Postie for where the f**k did that come from goes to.... szmike for the dadaist.



    sloth 222 2007-10-24 12:57:49.0 login to vote score 0
    modi: And I'm ready to give out the awards for this thread....


    And the Postie for best refutation of a troll goes to.... The envelope please! Sloth!

    And the Postie for best stfu goes to.... Ratf**ker!


    And last, but not least, the Postie for where the f**k did that come from goes to.... szmike for the dadaist.


    I'd like to thank God, my producer, my wonderful family for standing by my all these years, and all the little people.
    captain hoagie 2288 2007-10-24 12:58:31.0 login to vote score 0
    Someone did a beastie boys song here that got lost up in the fray that was funny, too.
    szmike 1151 2007-10-24 12:59:22.0 login to vote score 0
    modi: And last, but not least, the Postie for where the fuck did that come from goes to.... szmike for the dadaist.


    Cranberry potatoe moonbeams.

    modi 97 2007-10-24 13:05:04.0 login to vote score 0
    Hoagie

    you're right.. the song was awesome... so...

    For Best Lyrical Thread Summary in a Red Hot Nut.... the Postie goes to Captain Hoagart a.k.a Hoagie.
    captain hoagie 2288 2007-10-24 13:06:54.0 login to vote score 0
    I'd like to thank Allah, my producer, my horrible wife for cheating on me all these years, and fat people.
    gahbrone 481 2007-10-24 13:13:58.0 login to vote score 2
    That bitches job is to get fucked for money.

    too damn bad if she didnt enjoy it.

    slut. whore.
    mutilato 405 2007-10-24 13:20:18.0 login to vote score 1
    gahbrone: That bitches job is to get fucked for money.

    too damn bad if she didnt enjoy it.

    slut. whore.


    She was someone's daughter.
    sloth 222 2007-10-24 13:22:43.0 login to vote score 0
    mutilato: She was someone's daughter.

    And someone else's meat puppet.
    modi 97 2007-10-24 13:22:56.0 login to vote score 0
    gahbrone: That bitches job is to get fucked for money.

    too damn bad if she didnt enjoy it.

    slut. whore.


    yer too late gahbrone. If you had only been here earlier, that might have been more entertaining.
    captain hoagie 2288 2007-10-24 13:24:16.0 login to vote score 0
    gahbrone: That b***hes job is to get f**ked for money.

    too damn bad if she didnt enjoy it.

    s**t. w***e.


    Dammit, where were you an hour ago? This thing would have went to like, 1000 comments!
    sarmydoc 125 2007-10-24 13:27:45.0 login to vote score 0
    modi: Postie? Or would awards for posting on this site be called Bannies? Clownies?

    Herpes?


    Quit whoring for +1's from people. We all know no one around here likes whores.
    modi 97 2007-10-24 13:37:07.0 login to vote score 2
    sarmydoc: Quit whoring for +1's from people. We all know no one around here likes whores.

    Don't taserape me, dude!
    modi 97 2007-10-24 13:38:35.0 login to vote score 0
    modi: Don't taserape me, dude!

    Correction.

    Don't taserape me, bro!
    babycthulhu 807 2007-10-24 13:42:50.0 login to vote score 2
    modi: Correction.

    Don't taserape me, bro!


    No No No, it's:

    Don't steal my services, bro!
    modi 97 2007-10-24 14:08:08.0 login to vote score 0
    babycthulhu: No No No, it's:

    Don't steal my services, bro!


    +1
    ratfucker 470 2007-10-24 14:08:50.0 login to vote score 0
    babycthulhu: No No No, it's:

    Don't steal my services, bro!


    You win.
    modi 97 2007-10-24 14:09:23.0 login to vote score 0
    babycthulhu: No No No, it's:

    Don't steal my services, bro!


    I'll go so far as to say...

    Epic win.
    cannonhawk 849 2007-10-24 14:19:22.0 login to vote score 0
    gahbrone 481 2007-10-24 14:19:48.0 login to vote score 0
    modi: yer too late gahbrone. If you had only been here earlier, that might have been more entertaining.

    ratfucker: You win.

    Stupid fucking job. baslted work. keeps me from getting things going properly. stupid job.
    meta 1442 2007-10-24 14:22:14.0 login to vote score 3
    ratfucker 470 2007-10-24 14:22:48.0 login to vote score 0
    gahbrone: Stupid fucking job. baslted work. keeps me from getting things going properly. stupid job.

    You're a doodie head and you eat baby kittens for fun.

    Motivated enough to respond and lash out?
    gahbrone 481 2007-10-24 14:24:33.0 login to vote score 0
    ratfucker: You're a doodie head and you eat baby kittens for fun.

    Motivated enough to respond and lash out?


    I only it baby kittens on days I'm not killing orphans, assclown.
    mutilato 405 2007-10-24 14:29:02.0 login to vote score 0
    One or two of us liberals have jobs. Just for show, though, I suspect.
    lincoln 1716 2007-10-24 14:31:51.0 login to vote score 0
    This thread goes to 11

    Tagged: Goes to 11
    lincoln 1716 2007-10-24 14:32:28.0 login to vote score 0
    mutilato: One or two of us liberals have jobs. Just for show, though, I suspect.

    I am a liberal and I currently do not have a job.
    el_swino 1256 2007-10-24 15:32:48.0 login to vote score 8
    the crusader: In my mind, and the mind of many people who read these threads and Never comment (for the reasons listed above) I won this one hands down.

    Nope, not even close, pal. Actually, in this lurker's mind, you were proven wrong numerous times and simply ignored the facts you found inconvenient. This is typical behavior for you, and it's one of the reasons why I find you to be a ridiculous caricature, mindlessly aping conservative thoughts and actions but not really "getting it". Oh, and please stop speaking on behalf of people you don't know, it's extremely presumptuous, and demonstrably incorrect.

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