WTF: "The Bush administration on Friday urged a federal appeals court to stop meatpackers from testing their animals for mad cow disease.

Fried brain sandwiches anyone?

I'm sure they have a perfectly good reason. Lets not be hasty guys.

jamin aura: I'm sure they have a perfectly good reason. Lets not be hasty guys.

Like they've had for all their other decisions?

I don't understand how the government can pull this off with a straight face or with this level of intensity in its opposition to the actions of this private business.

The actions of Creekstone do not create an official standard of testing. It may be unnecessary, but it is in no way anti-competitive. If they want to test for and advertise that they test for mad-cow, they should be able to. If other companies wish to refuse to test for mad cow, they should be able to.

fuckyou: Like they've had for all their other decisions?

Yeah, so we should wait to see how this one plays out. It probably isn't that bad, the media always makes these things out to be worse than they are.

jamin aura: I'm sure they have a perfectly good reason. Lets not be hasty guys.

Larger meatpackers have opposed Creekstone's push to allow wider testing out of fear that consumer pressure would force them to begin testing all animals too. Increased testing would raise the price of meat by a few cents per pound.

Follow the money. If corruption this blatant is being aired publicly, imagine what is going on behind closed doors.

wsucanuck: I don't understand how the government can pull this off with a straight face or with this level of intensity in its opposition to the actions of this private business.

The actions of Creekstone do not create an official standard of testing. It may be unnecessary, but it is in no way anti-competitive. If they want to test for and advertise that they test for mad-cow, they should be able to. If other companies wish to refuse to test for mad cow, they should be able to.

I thought this administration claimed to be for free markets. Wait, that was a lie too. Democracy and capitalism are out, big government is in!

They only call it Mad Cow Disease because PMS was taken.

Regulation only slows the infected beef from getting to the market.

It'll be good for you, people. Put some hair on your chest.
And an infection in your brain.

wsucanuck: I don't understand how the government can pull this off with a straight face or with this level of intensity in its opposition to the actions of this private business.


Very funny. The Administration has picked the side of another "private business", that of the cattle-raisers. It's simply a question of who has paid more.

holy crap my nancy metric took a hit

[image hidden]

totalsecurity: Fried brain sandwiches anyone?

I had one of dem circa 2002. Not impressed. I tried sweetbreads friday for the first time. Also not impressed. Guess I just can't get into organ meat.

elchip: I had one of dem circa 2002. Not impressed. I tried sweetbreads friday for the first time. Also not impressed. Guess I just can't get into organ meat.

Cow Tongue in a taco or burrito ftw

elchip: I had one of dem circa 2002. Not impressed. I tried sweetbreads friday for the first time. Also not impressed. Guess I just can't get into organ meat.


I've never had the brains of domestic animals, but I've had moose and caribou organs.

Also various organs from wild birds and wild fish.

totalsecurity: I've never had the brains of domestic animals, but I've had moose and caribou organs.

Also various organs from wild birds and wild fish.

hows that van down by the river of yours doin?

wsucanuck: hows that van down by the river of yours doin?


You would know, being my caretaker.

totalsecurity: You would know, being my caretaker.

Rent is due.

wsucanuck: Rent is due.


I will waive it this month, just keep the area clean.

And change out those drug skanks regularly.

you have nothing to fear citizen, the ministry of truth tells you there is no mad cow disease.

consume moar products!

WTF, because you don't understand subby.

flashlv: WTF, because you don't understand subby.

then explain it to me so my simple brain can understand it.

If a company wants to take a higher standard of testing so that it can export meat to countries that require it why the fuck should the government stop them? We have a huge trade deficit, and part of that comes from the fact that agricultural regulations are not up to the standards of the countries that want to import our products.

oh, also - not subby.

i_am_jesus: then explain it to me so my simple brain can understand it.

If a company wants to take a higher standard of testing so that it can export meat to countries that require it why the fuck should the government stop them? We have a huge trade deficit, and part of that comes from the fact that agricultural regulations are not up to the standards of the countries that want to import our products.

Here, from the article.

Less than 1 percent of slaughtered cows are currently tested for the disease under Agriculture Department guidelines. The agency argues that more widespread testing does not guarantee food safety and could result in a false positive that scares consumers.

Your welcome ;)

flashlv: Less than 1 percent of slaughtered cows are currently tested for the disease under Agriculture Department guidelines. The agency argues that more widespread testing does not guarantee food safety and could result in a false positive that scares consumers.

Your welcome ;)

You actually buy that bullshit logic?

sunofsam: You actually buy that bullshit logic?

Buy? I don't buy anything, it makes sense.

I know you think EVERYTHING is bullshit from the Bush admin, so I really don't care what you believe or not.

flashlv: Buy? I don't buy anything, it makes sense.

I know you think EVERYTHING is bullshit from the Bush admin, so I really don't care what you believe or not.

I always suspected you were an idiot. Now I know.

Also meant to add, false positives have happened before, so I'm sorry you don't think so.

/shrug

sunofsam: I always suspected you were an idiot. Now I know.

And once again don't care what you say.

And looks like I win cause you turned to insults because you feel defeated.

flashlv: Here, from the article.

Less than 1 percent of slaughtered cows are currently tested for the disease under Agriculture Department guidelines. The agency argues that more widespread testing does not guarantee food safety and could result in a false positive that scares consumers.

Your welcome ;)

Ok, youve given a fact. Now make a logical connection that illustrates why the government should be able to ban it. If you are saying that we are protecting consumers from false positives - assuming that any test can produce a false positive - then we should immediately cease all consumer testing of any kind. This includes crash testing for cars, Ecoli testing for beef and vegetables, and health department inspections of restaurants.

Now address my argument. If the company wants to export its products to a country that requires a higher degree of testing than we do, what authority does the department of agriculture have to stop it?

i_am_jesus: Ok, youve given a fact. Now make a logical connection that illustrates why the government should be able to ban it. If you are saying that we are protecting consumers from false positives - assuming that any test can produce a false positive - then we should immediately cease all consumer testing of any kind. This includes crash testing for cars, Ecoli testing for beef and vegetables, and health department inspections of restaurants.

Now address my argument. If the company wants to export its products to a country that requires a higher degree of testing than we do, what authority does the department of agriculture have to stop it?

Because the government is protecting the interests here in America. It's simple economics. The government wants to protect against beef prices skyrocketing and costing consumers more money.

They could let it be, but they are only brining it up on BN because Bush is doing it.

flashlv: Because the government is protecting the interests here in America. It's simple economics. The government wants to protect against beef prices skyrocketing and costing consumers more money.

They could let it be, but they are only brining it up on BN because Bush is doing it.

you still have not addressed the issue. If we are "protecting" people from false positives then why do we allow other forms of consumer testing? Ecoli for example?

i_am_jesus: you still have not addressed the issue. If we are "protecting" people from false positives then why do we allow other forms of consumer testing? Ecoli for example?

I'm not addressing because it's irrelevant. Ecoli is tested for, so is mad cow disease. They feel it's unnecessary, and this is nothing new.

They want to keep people protected in more than one way.

Mad Cow

Denny Crane!

flashlv: I'm not addressing because it's irrelevant. Ecoli is tested for, so is mad cow disease. They feel it's unnecessary, and this is nothing new.

They want to keep people protected in more than one way.

you are not even making sense. Other countries test for these things far more thoroughly than what this company is proposing, and yet we do not see beef prices spiraling out of control. Of course this is relevant - we have had an unregulated meat industry once read "the Jungle" to see how that turned out.

You are accusing others of arguing against the bush administration instead of addressing the argument. Well, I think you are only supporting this asinine venture because you are a shill for that particular administration.

i_am_jesus: you are not even making sense. Other countries test for these things far more thoroughly than what this company is proposing, and yet we do not see beef prices spiraling out of control. Of course this is relevant - we have had an unregulated meat industry once read "the Jungle" to see how that turned out.

You are accusing others of arguing against the bush administration instead of addressing the argument. Well, I think you are only supporting this asinine venture because you are a shill for that particular administration.

I see no reason for it to be done, the government doesn't and neither do the other beef producers.

More detection does nothing for us, it doesn't protect us any more but it could hurt us more. I eat beef, I don't see the need for beef prices to go up because of a false positive.

Sorry you disagree. If there was any chance this could hurt us or help us this would not have been done.

wsucanuck: Cow Tongue in a taco or burrito ftw

Dammit, I have never remembered to order tongue at a place which serves it. One day, I will get tongue, and it will be good.

flashlv: Buy? I don't buy anything, it makes sense.

I know you think EVERYTHING is bullshit from the Bush admin, so I really don't care what you believe or not.

Okay, I'm 100% convinced you're a troll.

I'm sorry I was ever lured in by your tactics.

flashlv: I see no reason for it to be done, the government doesn't and neither do the other beef producers.

Baseless conjecture + appeal to authority

flashlv: More detection does nothing for us, it doesn't protect us any more but it could hurt us more. I eat beef, I don't see the need for beef prices to go up because of a false positive.

Baseless conjecture with equally baseless conclusion.

flashlv: Sorry you disagree. If there was any chance this could hurt us or help us this would not have been done.

Faux sorrow, baseless conjecture with a touch of appeal to authority.

You are actually arguing that a private enterprise should be prevented by the government from taking additional safety precautions in order to enter another market based on pure speculation.

You're an idiot or your trolling.

flashlv: If there was any chance this could hurt us or help us this would not have been done.

Oh for fucks sake it should now be obvious to anyone that you are just a troll nothing more nothing less. No one could be possibly this stupid.

You might even be an alt of someone for all we know as in just for the lulz like the kids say these days.

This is just another one of those profit in the short term who care what happens next scenarios.

flashlv: I see no reason for it to be done, the government doesn't and neither do the other beef producers.

More detection does nothing for us, it doesn't protect us any more but it could hurt us more. I eat beef, I don't see the need for beef prices to go up because of a false positive.

Sorry you disagree. If there was any chance this could hurt us or help us this would not have been done.

clearly the "government" doesn't think we need it.
http://www.fda.gov/opacom/laws/meat.htm

also see:
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/0272-4332.00038

and

this:

There is consensus that scientifically validated, quantitative assessments of actual public health risks are a prerequisite for any sound modernization of current meat inspection procedures. This article outlines how such analyses could be conducted. Approaches that rely heavily upon extrapolations from theoretical dose-effect relationships are inadequate for the assessment of microbiological health risks associated with the production and consumption of meat. The use of highly structured and very elaborate descriptive epidemiological models covering the entire period from stable to table can be considered a promising solution. Health risks can be quantified by means of incidence rates and the influence of risk factors by means of odds ratios and (population) attributable fractions. A great advantage is that when it is not possible to quantify risks exactly, the descriptive models are detailed enough to be used in a hazard analysis critical control point (HACCP)-like approach and for writing validated codes of good manufacturing practice (GMP). There are, however, several conditions which have to be met before risk assessment can become the foundation of safety assurances for meat, such as active legislative support and the setting up of monitoring systems for zoonoses and other health hazards in animals and humans.

and finally read this to address your concern about economics:

Increasing risk and costs from food-borne illness has led food-processing firms to intensify pathogen reduction efforts. Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Points (HACCP) is one system for evaluating which hazards need to be controlled and where in the production process they can be controlled. Firms may choose among many competing technologies that differ in cost and effectiveness at controlling pathogen growth. To evaluate a firm's pathogen control options, a probabilistic risk analysis model based on typical slaughterhouse practices is linked to a decision model to evaluate the cost effectiveness of seven combinations of pathogen-reducing technologies. The likely comparative advantage of different strategies for large vs. small slaughterhouses is examined. Risk is compared for two cases with the same mean risk to illustrate the importance of correct model specification. The report concludes with a discussion of the institutional barriers and incomplete markets that affect the adoption and development of more effective pathogen reduction technologies. [EconLit citations: Q180, O300, L510]. © 2004 Wiley Periodicals, Inc. Agribusiness 20: 109-123, 2004

but really....tell me more about what you "think"

sunofsam:

Baseless conjecture + appeal to authority

Wrong, not baseless at all because it's in the article for this thread, hurrr. News is baseless conjecture.


sunofsam:
Baseless conjecture with equally baseless conclusion.


Facts are baseless conclusions to sunofsam.


sunofsam: Faux sorrow, baseless conjecture with a touch of appeal to authority.

You are actually arguing that a private enterprise should be prevented by the government from taking additional safety precautions in order to enter another market based on pure speculation.

You're an idiot or your trolling.

You are in fact trolling like you do every time you post. I am going off the facts and the article, I guess the article is trolling you too, you should get some tin foil to stop it from happening again.

Private enterprise is always prevented in doing a LOT of things, too bad your ignorance is showing. (again and again)

anonymous: Oh for fucks sake it should now be obvious to anyone that you are just a troll nothing more nothing less. No one could be possibly this stupid.

You might even be an alt of someone for all we know as in just for the lulz like the kids say these days.

This is just another one of those profit in the short term who care what happens next scenarios.

Odd, only trolls post anon.

/shrug

flashlv:

You should probably kill yourself.

i_am_jesus: clearly the "government" doesn't think we need it.
http://www.fda.gov/opacom/laws/meat.htm

also see:
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/0272-4332.00038

and

this:

There is consensus that scientifically validated, quantitative assessments of actual public health risks are a prerequisite for any sound modernization of current meat inspection procedures. This article outlines how such analyses could be conducted. Approaches that rely heavily upon extrapolations from theoretical dose-effect relationships are inadequate for the assessment of microbiological health risks associated with the production and consumption of meat. The use of highly structured and very elaborate descriptive epidemiological models covering the entire period from stable to table can be considered a promising solution. Health risks can be quantified by means of incidence rates and the influence of risk factors by means of odds ratios and (population) attributable fractions. A great advantage is that when it is not possible to quantify risks exactly, the descriptive models are detailed enough to be used in a hazard analysis critical control point (HACCP)-like approach and for writing validated codes of good manufacturing practice (GMP). There are, however, several conditions which have to be met before risk assessment can become the foundation of safety assurances for meat, such as active legislative support and the setting up of monitoring systems for zoonoses and other health hazards in animals and humans.

and finally read this to address your concern about economics:

Increasing risk and costs from food-borne illness has led food-processing firms to intensify pathogen reduction efforts. Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Points (HACCP) is one system for evaluating which hazards need to be controlled and where in the production process they can be controlled. Firms may choose among many competing technologies that differ in cost and effectiveness at controlling pathogen growth. To evaluate a firm's pathogen control options, a probabilistic risk analysis model based on typical slaughterhouse practices is linked to a decision model to evaluate the cost effectiveness of seven combinations of pathogen-reducing technologies. The likely comparative advantage of different strategies for large vs. small slaughterhouses is examined. Risk is compared for two cases with the same mean risk to illustrate the importance of correct model specification. The report concludes with a discussion of the institutional barriers and incomplete markets that affect the adoption and development of more effective pathogen reduction technologies. [EconLit citations: Q180, O300, L510]. © 2004 Wiley Periodicals, Inc. Agribusiness 20: 109-123, 2004

but really....tell me more about what you "think"

2004, welcome to 4 years ago.

And just like global warming, not everyone agrees. Sorry that you think that.

Please explain why you think they did it? I've answered your questions.

I never said stop testing, I'm saying they are hurting no one by making them stop testing unnecessarily.

They already have enough in place to catch it, they could do more I imagine, but they feel this is unnecessary, and you cannot show me anything that says differently. can you?

sunofsam:

You're an idiot or your trolling.

its a little bit of both. At first I was convinced it was more the former, but now its pretty clear that it is the latter.

Larger meatpackers have opposed Creekstone's push to allow wider testing out of fear that consumer pressure would force them to begin testing all animals too. Increased testing would raise the price of meat by a few cents per pound.

Sorry, I thought you guys read the entire article.

i_am_jesus: its a little bit of both. At first I was convinced it was more the former, but now its pretty clear that it is the latter.

I just don't understand the enjoyment one can garner from dropping intentionally faulty arguments to get rises out of people. It seems so utterly pointless and childish.

flashlv: Larger meatpackers have opposed Creekstone's push to allow wider testing out of fear that consumer pressure would force them to begin testing all animals too. Increased testing would raise the price of meat by a few cents per pound.

Sorry, I thought you guys read the entire article.

I'll keep in mind you wholeheartedly disagree with a free market approach to business. Oh wait, I forgot, you're nothing but a fucking troll and what you post means less than shit.

i_am_jesus: its a little bit of both. At first I was convinced it was more the former, but now its pretty clear that it is the latter.

Jesus, I read the article, I see the points they made all I am doing is repeating what they said, how is that possibly trolling?

If I am trolling the writer of this article is trolling.

Sorry I want prices to stay low, I'm sorry I do not want to pay more for a filet.

flashlv: 2004, welcome to 4 years ago.

And just like global warming, not everyone agrees. Sorry that you think that.

Please explain why you think they did it? I've answered your questions.

I never said stop testing, I'm saying they are hurting no one by making them stop testing unnecessarily.

They already have enough in place to catch it, they could do more I imagine, but they feel this is unnecessary, and you cannot show me anything that says differently. can you?

since you clearly only read the date - both of those PEER REVIEWED JOURNAL articles are about modernizing the inspection procedures to be more effective (both in cost and preventing disease).

You are thick. It must be nice to ignore fact so easily and default to appeal to authority.

sunofsam: I'll keep in mind you wholeheartedly disagree with a free market approach to business. Oh wait, I forgot, you're nothing but a fucking troll and what you post means less than shit.

Sorry, but thete is no free market in the economy, that went away a LONG LONG time ago. But I thought you would have known that.

The United States is not a free market economy and hasn't been for at least 20 - 30 years (probably longer). The United States is considered to be a Mixed Market economy.

It's awesome that I am able to teach you a few things kid. You are trolling Sam, you are the one cursing and insulting, that is trolling.

Stop throwing a temper tantrum and grow up a bit.

You sound like this:

[image hidden]

I refuse to argue the point any further. If you have nothing more to offer then I am going to sleep.

i_am_jesus: since you clearly only read the date - both of those PEER REVIEWED JOURNAL articles are about modernizing the inspection procedures to be more effective (both in cost and preventing disease).

You are thick. It must be nice to ignore fact so easily and default to appeal to authority.

Who cares if they are peer-reviewed, it has nothing to do with this article, NOTHING.

This has nothing to do with modernization and this will not change anything having to do with that, sorry you feel it does.

I find it hilarious sunofsam is clueless about the US economy, wow, just amazing.

Apparently, Flash LV hates the free market. Commie!

i_am_jesus: I refuse to argue the point any further. If you have nothing more to offer then I am going to sleep.

Wasn't it awesome how he somehow interpreted my observation that he is opposing a free market approach into a declaration of my own ignorance of U.S. business law? It's as if he's trolling or something.

i_am_jesus: its a little bit of both. At first I was convinced it was more the former, but now its pretty clear that it is the latter.

I agree. I totally bought into a lot of what he's said before because a minority of people really do think the same way, but the comments in this thread really kind of blew his cover.

It's nice to know people won't take anything he says at face value anymore, though. Fewer flamefests. :)

wrestlegirl: I agree. I totally bought into a lot of what he's said before because a minority of people really do think the same way, but the comments in this thread really kind of blew his cover.

It's nice to know people won't take anything he says at face value anymore, though. Fewer flamefests. :)

Are you fucking kidding me? I've been trying to explain this to people for MONTHS. Look at this:

[image hidden]

It doesn't matter, people will still take the fucking bait.

[image hidden]

sunofsam: Are you fucking kidding me? I've been trying to explain this to people for MONTHS. Look at this:



It doesn't matter, people will still take the fucking bait.

Damn, that's when I was on hiatus. :(

I wish vin diesel would come back, he was super cool.

stimp:

Yea... that is in no way shape or form analogous to the 'discussion' in this thread.

Face it, a lot of what is in mass produced meat is bad for you, and the govenment isn't trying to protect you from any of it.

News flash, the govenment doesn't are about protecting you.

wrestlegirl: Damn, that's when I was on hiatus. :(

I wish vin diesel would come back, he was super cool.

I agree, I liked him.

sunofsam: Yea... that is in no way shape or form analogous to the 'discussion' in this thread.

Oh noes! I sure hope the mods don't get mad and ban me!

abbynormal: I agree, I liked him.

FTR, I think everyone in this thread except flash is super cool; I didn't mean to imply all you guys were crap compared to vin!! =D

wrestlegirl: FTR, I think everyone in this thread except flash is super cool; I didn't mean to imply all you guys were crap compared to vin!! =D

I didn't interpret it that way before, nor do I believe anyone else did. But now I'm suspicious....

\I actually miss gil gigamesh too, that image always reminds me of him.

Not Anonymous: Apparently, Flash LV hates the free market. Commie!

What free market?! Not one in the US.

wrestlegirl: I agree. I totally bought into a lot of what he's said before because a minority of people really do think the same way, but the comments in this thread really kind of blew his cover.

It's nice to know people won't take anything he says at face value anymore, though. Fewer flamefests. :)

You can think that, but I really do not give 3 shits. Really I don't.

All I ever did was said what the article said, you people are amazing.

scumofsam: Are you fucking kidding me? I've been trying to explain this to people for MONTHS. Look at this:



It doesn't matter, people will still take the fucking bait.

Look at the date.

scumofsam, you post that and take it way out of context, you need to put what thread that was in, but you won't do that, that would BLOW the screen cap out of the water and prove you a liar.

wrestlegirl: FTR, I think everyone in this thread except flash is super cool; I didn't mean to imply all you guys were crap compared to vin!! =D

Super cool, are you a teenagers? Mature people don't talk like that.

flashlv: Super cool, are you a teenagers? Mature people don't talk like that.

I was under the impression that mature people didn't troll internet message boards.

\out of context my ass.

Even FMB has more personality than this twit.

flashlv: Super cool, are you a teenagers? Mature people don't talk like that.

You're never gonna get any delicious cheesecake now.

flashlv: Look at the date.

scumofsam, you post that and take it way out of context, you need to put what thread that was in, but you won't do that, that would BLOW the screen cap out of the water and prove you a liar.

Here, have some context

scumofsam: I was under the impression that mature people didn't troll internet message boards.

\out of context my ass.

I guess you are immature, because you are the only person trolling in here.

Attacking me for my beliefs, and not adding one single thing to this thread is trolling, it's what you do in every thread you visit. EVERYONE.

You can not find one thread where you aren't attacking someone.

Link the whole thread if it's not out of context, what you are doing is 100% the definition of taking something out of context, 2 snippets from a thread over 100 posts (I' can't remember for sure because I'm not a stalker) is the definition of out of context and trolling.

I was bored, and I found easy marks.

Damn, I didn't even need to go that far, I haven't read your screen shot ever.

I was bored is key and why posting it in every thread is being wrong. I'm not bored now.

Sorry I had to burst your bubble of fun.

Ouch, sorry I had to own you.

stimp: You're never gonna get any delicious cheesecake now.

But cheesecake for everyone else!!!
[image hidden]

flashlv:
flashlv:

The thread search really does a great job, I have to give props to grahams. Keep flailing, it doesn't change the fact that you're not wearing any clothes in this thread.

sunofsam: The thread search really does a great job, I have to give props to grahams. Keep flailing, it doesn't change the fact that you're not wearing any clothes in this thread.

Props for what?!

oh scumofsam did a failpost

wrestlegirl: But cheesecake for everyone else!!!

Like OMG super cool pic of cheesecake, OMG.

wrestlegirl: But cheesecake for everyone else!!!

[image hidden]

wrestlegirl: But cheesecake for everyone else!!!

I would kill for some cheesecake right now!