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  • Tax breaks for families outweigh corporate tax breaks



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  • Tagged with : why deny them of patriotic

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    muninsfire 189 2011-09-19 07:25:57.0 login to vote score 0
    So it's best to raise money off the backs of the poor and middle class rather than to encourage corporations--an entity that exists only to make money--to pay their fair share?

    Good luck getting blood from a turnip.
    the number 6534 2011-09-19 07:31:27.0 login to vote score 4
    As well they should. Do you know how many jobs your mom gives creates?
    czarangelus 646 2011-09-19 07:36:26.0 login to vote score 0
    muninsfire: So it's best to raise money off the backs of the poor and middle class rather than to encourage corporations--an entity that exists only to make money--to pay their fair share?Good luck getting blood from a turnip.

    That's what monetary inflation to fund deficit spending is
    czarangelus 646 2011-09-19 07:37:01.0 login to vote score 0
    Sir I am shocked, shocked, to uncover that the heaviest taxes are on the poor. Even under President Hope
    fatsean 3838 2011-09-19 07:39:39.0 login to vote score 2
    czarangelus: Sir I am shocked, shocked, to uncover that the heaviest taxes are on the poor. Even under President Hope

    Barack Obama has really gotten under your skin! The poor don't pay income taxes, and for good reason.
    czarangelus 646 2011-09-19 07:40:37.0 login to vote score 1
    fatsean: Barack Obama has really gotten under your skin! The poor don't pay income taxes, and for good reason.

    Monetary inflation through money printing and fractional reserve lending, is taxation
    czarangelus 646 2011-09-19 07:41:33.0 login to vote score 0
    I keep forgetting things are fucked up because Tea Party, not due to a systematic culture of violence, theft, and corruption that defines DC
    fatsean 3838 2011-09-19 07:46:15.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus: Monetary inflation through money printing and fractional reserve lending, is taxation


    No.
    czarangelus 646 2011-09-19 07:47:52.0 login to vote score 0
    fatsean: No.

    YES IT TRANSFERS WEALTH FROM THE WORKING CLASS TO THE CORPORATE AND POLITICAL CLASS
    czarangelus 646 2011-09-19 07:48:00.0 login to vote score 0
    IT'S GODDAMNED TAUTOLOGICAL
    fatsean 3838 2011-09-19 07:48:33.0 login to vote score 2
    czarangelus: YES IT TRANSFERS WEALTH FROM THE WORKING CLASS TO THE CORPORATE AND POLITICAL CLASS

    Words have meanings.
    czarangelus 646 2011-09-19 07:52:29.0 login to vote score 1
    fatsean: Words have meanings.

    You just don't want to admit that there are very simple and explicable reasons for poverty, which aren't "duh huh they're lazy" or "dem illegals took our jobs!" Because the explanations implicate both parties and the entire political establishment as performing a literal fleecing of the entire working class!
    fatsean 3838 2011-09-19 07:53:42.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus: You just don't want to admit that there are very simple and explicable reasons for poverty, which aren't "duh huh they're lazy" or "dem illegals took our jobs!" Because the explanations implicate both parties and the entire political establishment as performing a literal fleecing of the entire working class!

    You're telling me poverty didn't exist before currency and fractional reserve banking?

    Yeah, this is why everyone thinks you're half retarded.

    czarangelus 646 2011-09-19 07:54:01.0 login to vote score 0
    People are poor across this nation because the government and the biggest corporations are in a tremendous confiscatory circle jerk over the assets of the working class
    czarangelus 646 2011-09-19 07:54:51.0 login to vote score 1
    fatsean: You're telling me poverty didn't exist before currency and fractional reserve banking?Yeah, this is why everyone thinks you're half retarded.

    Why haven't we received the majority of the benefit from the increase in capital that has taken place over the past 40 years?
    czarangelus 646 2011-09-19 07:56:08.0 login to vote score 0
    This is just more stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid shit out of liberals who literally can't wrap their mind around the idea that what the government does might not be what's best for the people it "serves" (as in, to serve man)
    fatsean 3838 2011-09-19 07:56:08.0 login to vote score 2
    czarangelus: Why haven't we received the majority of the benefit from the increase in capital that has taken place over the past 40 years?

    Lax government regulations and a tax code that goes way too easy on the very wealthy and their means of acquiring their wealth: capital gains.
    fatsean 3838 2011-09-19 07:56:32.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus: This is just more stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid shit out of liberals who literally can't wrap their mind around the idea that what the government does might not be what's best for the people it "serves" (as in, to serve man)

    Cry moar you little sissy :)
    spongegirl circleskirt 382 2011-09-19 07:58:33.0 login to vote score 3

    czarangelus 646 2011-09-19 07:58:37.0 login to vote score 0
    fatsean: Lax government regulations and a tax code that goes way too easy on the very wealthy and their means of acquiring their wealth: capital gains.

    So prosperity comes from wealth redistribution and not a net increase in available capital?
    osirisothedead 1858 2011-09-19 07:58:38.0 login to vote score 2
    czarangelus: YES IT TRANSFERS WEALTH FROM THE WORKING CLASS TO THE CORPORATE AND POLITICAL CLASS

    Please don't go full pony before noon.
    spongegirl circleskirt 382 2011-09-19 07:59:37.0 login to vote score 0
    osirisothedead: Please don't go full pony before noon.



    Too late.
    someone who may or may not be czarangelus 2011-09-19 08:01:59.0 login to vote score 1
    osirisothedead: Please don't go full pony before noon.

    I feel like I'm trying to explain to grown, apparently non-retarded adults why they shouldn't cut off their own limbs with powertools. The fact the argument even has to happen means good sense has already lost.
    burntman 1528 2011-09-19 08:02:09.0 login to vote score 3
    fatsean: You're telling me poverty didn't exist before currency and fractional reserve banking?

    Yeah, this is why everyone thinks you're half retarded.


    half? Fractions are not whole numbers.
    quick1 501 2011-09-19 08:04:24.0 login to vote score 3
    czarangelus: Why haven't we received the majority of the benefit from the increase in capital that has taken place over the past 40 years?

    Because wages have stayed stagnant the entire time. I'm not sure what this has to do with the article.
    keerbip 4358 2011-09-19 08:05:22.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus: This is just more stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid shit out of liberals who literally can't wrap their mind around the idea that what the government does might not be what's best for the people it "serves" (as in, to serve man)

    Minds don't literally wrap.
    czarangelus 646 2011-09-19 08:06:02.0 login to vote score 0
    quick1: Because wages have stayed stagnant the entire time. I'm not sure what this has to do with the article.

    Why? How?
    fatsean 3838 2011-09-19 08:07:51.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus: So prosperity comes from wealth redistribution and not a net increase in available capital?

    Moving paper about creates capital from pure air!
    fatsean 3838 2011-09-19 08:08:20.0 login to vote score 1
    burntman: half? Fractions are not whole numbers.

    Getting stern with him only validates his self importance :)
    czarangelus 646 2011-09-19 08:08:44.0 login to vote score 0
    Why on earth did this world invest so much energy into bringing you into a grown human body when the body of a dog would have served so much better?
    keerbip 4358 2011-09-19 08:10:03.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus: Why on earth did this world invest so much energy into bringing you into a grown human body when the body of a dog would have served so much better?

    Is a dog body more energy-efficient?
    fatsean 3838 2011-09-19 08:10:25.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus: Why on earth did this world invest so much energy into bringing you into a grown human body when the body of a dog would have served so much better?

    Because I'm a job creator! :D
    burntman 1528 2011-09-19 08:10:56.0 login to vote score 0
    fatsean: Getting stern with him only validates his self importance :)

    meh, he's a pretty bright kid, and he is capable of having a decent discussion, god knows why he does this "17 year old angst" performance.
    so vote republican 6688 2011-09-19 08:13:16.0 login to vote score 2
    quick1: Because wages have stayed stagnant the entire time. I'm not sure what this has to do with the article.

    Gee, you don't think that people who have to pay wages mightn't enjoy a situation where the wages they have to pay lose value over time, which they can raise prices for the commodities they create.

    They might even setup a system where that happens slowly over time and convince people it was for their own good.

    I just don't know how, when when the wealth has demonstrably concentrated at the top over time, people STILL defend it religiously.

    I guess that's it... it's religious at this point.
    vushtrriboy 3085 2011-09-19 08:13:31.0 login to vote score 1
    Welcome to the back water eddy of capitalism. Want growth? Find a new frontier. Want temporary growth? Radically change technology. Other than that, you're just squeezing one side of the balloon or the other.
    so vote republican 6688 2011-09-19 08:13:50.0 login to vote score 0
    Oh, and VAT taxes for the win.

    All this "this loophole" and "that loophole" is bullshit just designed to give people something to fight about while they rob and kill.
    czarangelus 646 2011-09-19 08:13:56.0 login to vote score 1
    fatsean: Because I'm a job creator! :D

    An intact window is worth more than a broken one.
    bxrwxr 2042 2011-09-19 08:14:35.0 login to vote score 0

    Everyone needs to pay their fair share.
    burntman 1528 2011-09-19 08:17:09.0 login to vote score 2
    vushtrriboy: Find a new frontier.

    Believe it or not, that still exists. Farming in Zambia is very viable with relatively little capital.
    brazil 316 2011-09-19 08:18:31.0 login to vote score 0
    Everyone that makes money needs to be killed to make room for the poor.
    czarangelus 646 2011-09-19 08:21:05.0 login to vote score 0
    Why aren't we always in a Depression if Depressions are caused by freedom and not by monetary policy?
    quick1 501 2011-09-19 08:23:35.0 login to vote score 1
    so vote republican: Gee, you don't think that people who have to pay wages mightn't enjoy a situation where the wages they have to pay lose value over time, which they can raise prices for the commodities they create.

    They might even setup a system where that happens slowly over time and convince people it was for their own good.

    I just don't know how, when when the wealth has demonstrably concentrated at the top over time, people STILL defend it religiously.

    I guess that's it... it's religious at this point.


    So what's the plan? Eliminate inflation? How do you propose to do that?
    phil_herup 8976 2011-09-19 08:25:55.0 login to vote score -1
    bxrwxr: Everyone needs to pay their fair share.


    Yes. So how do you suggest we get those folks who don't pay income taxes to step up to the plate and contribute? There is a huge untapped resource there.
    spongegirl circleskirt 382 2011-09-19 08:26:05.0 login to vote score 0
    fatsean: Moving paper about creates capital from pure air!

    Especially while shredding to good tunes that eager losers can't keep up!
    czarangelus 646 2011-09-19 08:26:09.0 login to vote score 0
    quick1: So what's the plan? Eliminate inflation? How do you propose to do that?

    Outlawing fractional reserve banking.
    Stop printing money except the cash required to maintain a stable monetary base.
    bxrwxr 2042 2011-09-19 08:26:27.0 login to vote score 0
    phil_herup: Yes. So how do you suggest we get those folks who don't pay income taxes to step up to the plate and contribute? There is a huge untapped resource there.

    Tax them.
    spongegirl circleskirt 382 2011-09-19 08:26:31.0 login to vote score 0
    phil_herup: Yes. So how do you suggest we get those folks who don't pay income taxes to step up to the plate and contribute? There is a huge untapped resource there.

    DEBTORS PRISON!!!
    czarangelus 646 2011-09-19 08:27:42.0 login to vote score 0
    phil_herup: Yes. So how do you suggest we get those folks who don't pay income taxes to step up to the plate and contribute? There is a huge untapped resource there.

    I think those folks are already tapped out in supporting government.
    so vote republican 6688 2011-09-19 08:28:11.0 login to vote score 0
    quick1: So what's the plan? Eliminate inflation? How do you propose to do that?

    The Federal Reserve's stated goal is to maintain steady (but low) inflation. Altering that might be a start.
    quick1 501 2011-09-19 08:29:32.0 login to vote score 1
    so vote republican: The Federal Reserve's stated goal is to maintain steady (but low) inflation. Altering that might be a start.

    Well, inflation is pretty much a guarantee with any monetary system, unless you have a secret one in your pocket that you've been holding out on. At least this attempts to keep it fairly consistent and predictable.
    phil_herup 8976 2011-09-19 08:30:19.0 login to vote score 0
    bxrwxr: Tax them.

    Good idea. Tax them. Why deny them of patriotic?

    Once they see how their own money get wasted they my think twice before blindly voting (D)
    quick1 501 2011-09-19 08:30:40.0 login to vote score 3
    phil_herup: Yes. So how do you suggest we get those folks who don't pay income taxes to step up to the plate and contribute? There is a huge untapped resource there.

    Sure, someone making $20,000 a year can certainly afford to lose a couple grand out of their paycheck. That will pay for a couple of picoseconds in Afghanistan!
    quick1 501 2011-09-19 08:31:08.0 login to vote score 0
    phil_herup: Why deny them of patriotic?

    Yes, why?
    bxrwxr 2042 2011-09-19 08:31:56.0 login to vote score 1
    phil_herup: Good idea. Tax them. Why deny them of patriotic?

    Once they see how their own money get wasted they my think twice before blindly voting (D)


    Why deny them of patriotic?

    You tell me.
    czarangelus 646 2011-09-19 08:32:00.0 login to vote score 1
    quick1: Well, inflation is pretty much a guarantee with any monetary system, unless you have a secret one in your pocket that you've been holding out on. At least this attempts to keep it fairly consistent and predictable.

    ?????

    How can you think this is true?

    In fact deflation is the natural result of a stable monetary base - as we get better at making pencils, your dollar buys more pencils.
    quick1 501 2011-09-19 08:33:58.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus: ?????

    How can you think this is true?

    In fact deflation is the natural result of a stable monetary base - as we get better at making pencils, your dollar buys more pencils.


    That still happens right now. Pencils are pretty damn cheap. The PS3 started out at what, $600? Now it's half that, because it's a lot cheaper for the parts.
    czarangelus 646 2011-09-19 08:35:48.0 login to vote score 1
    quick1: That still happens right now. Pencils are pretty damn cheap. The PS3 started out at what, $600? Now it's half that, because it's a lot cheaper for the parts.

    You can't eat a PS3. It's easier to get better at integrated circuits than harvesting apples.
    fatsean 3838 2011-09-19 08:37:02.0 login to vote score 1
    quick1: Sure, someone making $20,000 a year can certainly afford to lose a couple grand out of their paycheck. That will pay for a couple of picoseconds in Afghanistan!

    And the local small businesses can easily weather the loss of their spending.
    quick1 501 2011-09-19 08:37:29.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus: You can't eat a PS3. It's easier to get better at integrated circuits than harvesting apples.

    And now you're comparing... apples to oranges. Literally.
    czarangelus 646 2011-09-19 08:38:58.0 login to vote score 0
    quick1: And now you're comparing... apples to oranges. Literally.

    Moore's Law does not appear to apply to apple harvesting. Actually, when you think about it, the deflation that's taken place in technology is doubly astonishing, because it's also had to fight government money printing trying to drive up prices.
    fatsean 3838 2011-09-19 08:39:18.0 login to vote score 2
    so vote republican: Oh, and VAT taxes for the win.

    All this "this loophole" and "that loophole" is bullshit just designed to give people something to fight about while they rob and kill.


    A bit too regressive for my tastes, and it seems like such a tax would be even easier for the wealthy to avoid. Their LLC would purchase the good, pay the tax on it, deduct the tax and then gift it to the person maybe.
    fatsean 3838 2011-09-19 08:39:33.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: Moore's Law does not appear to apply to apple harvesting. Actually, when you think about it, the deflation that's taken place in technology is doubly astonishing, because it's also had to fight government money printing trying to drive up prices.

    You're like a pony with an apple!
    phil_herup 8976 2011-09-19 08:47:34.0 login to vote score 0
    quick1: Sure, someone making $20,000 a year can certainly afford to lose a couple grand out of their paycheck. That will pay for a couple of picoseconds in Afghanistan!

    Still, they should do it. Why should they be excused from contributing as they clearly live here and shit. The government is not free you know.

    There are a lot people in this pool, where even small contributions will add up quickly and make a nice dent. Plus they will feel better about themselves.
    phil_herup 8976 2011-09-19 08:49:25.0 login to vote score 0
    quick1: That still happens right now. Pencils are pretty damn cheap. The PS3 started out at what, $600? Now it's half that, because it's a lot cheaper for the parts.

    They also took out somoe of the good hardware.

    I have a 60GB beast and a 160GB. They are significantly different in weight.

    6oGB PS3 for FTW!!!
    eddyatwork 998 2011-09-19 08:50:52.0 login to vote score 2
    vushtrriboy: Welcome to the back water eddy of capitalism.

    I am extremely offended by this comment.
    quick1 501 2011-09-19 08:51:08.0 login to vote score 0
    phil_herup: They also took out somoe of the good hardware.

    I have a 60GB beast and a 160GB. They are significantly different in weight.

    6oGB PS3 for FTW!!!


    This just in: Advances in manufacturing of electronics makes things smaller and weigh less.

    I don't think the backwards compatibility chip weighed THAT much.
    burntman 1528 2011-09-19 08:55:46.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: You can't eat a PS3. It's easier to get better at integrated circuits than harvesting apples.

    Do you have any idea how much money goes into agricultural R&D? Do you think commercial apple farms are just some guy with a bunch of trees?
    czarangelus 646 2011-09-19 08:58:49.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman: Do you have any idea how much money goes into agricultural R&D? Do you think commercial apple farms are just some guy with a bunch of trees?

    I know we aren't doubling apple production every year. We aren't getting better at making apples at the same speed we're getting better at making computer chips, which is why the price of basic food is going up and the price of electronics are still dropping despite the huge monetary inflatin.
    spongegirl circleskirt 382 2011-09-19 09:00:01.0 login to vote score 1
    burntman: Do you have any idea how much money goes into agricultural R&D? Do you think commercial apple farms are just some guy with a bunch of trees?

    I thought it was just some Johnny-go lucky with a pot on his head and a bag of seeds over his shoulder?
    spongegirl circleskirt 382 2011-09-19 09:00:44.0 login to vote score 0
    My apple tree is infested with bugs this year. No pie for me. :(
    burntman 1528 2011-09-19 09:05:16.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: I know we aren't doubling apple production every year. We aren't getting better at making apples at the same speed we're getting better at making computer chips, which is why the price of basic food is going up and the price of electronics are still dropping despite the huge monetary inflatin.

    you do realise that an apple tomorrow is pretty much the same thing as an apple yesterday, while an PS2 is different from an PS3? Also an apple is bought for it's utility value, a ps3 is marketed as an aspirational product. These things are different.
    burntman 1528 2011-09-19 09:06:33.0 login to vote score 0
    spongegirl circleskirt: I thought it was just some Johnny-go lucky with a pot on his head and a bag of seeds over his shoulder?

    All the oranges I buy here, grown here are 2nd grade. The A-grade all get shipped to America and Europe. :(
    czarangelus 646 2011-09-19 09:06:44.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman: you do realise that an apple tomorrow is pretty much the same thing as an apple yesterday, while an PS2 is different from an PS3? Also an apple is bought for it's utility value, a ps3 is marketed as an aspirational product. These things are different.

    Apples are important and they're getting more expensive.
    burntman 1528 2011-09-19 09:07:58.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: Apples are important and they're getting more expensive.

    so riot. turn to crime. grow some balls. anything but this incessant fucking whining.
    spongegirl circleskirt 382 2011-09-19 09:08:09.0 login to vote score 1

    czarangelus 646 2011-09-19 09:09:33.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman: so riot. turn to crime. grow some balls. anything but this incessant fucking whining.

    So you've come around to admitting there's a problem with an expanding monetary base to fund government bureaucracies and profligacy?
    burntman 1528 2011-09-19 09:13:01.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: So you've come around to admitting there's a problem with an expanding monetary base to fund government bureaucracies and profligacy?

    Why would I be one to come around? The price of apples in California is not something that affects me.
    so vote republican 6688 2011-09-19 09:30:53.0 login to vote score 0
    quick1: Well, inflation is pretty much a guarantee with any monetary system, unless you have a secret one in your pocket that you've been holding out on. At least this attempts to keep it fairly consistent and predictable.

    Wat. This is simply incorrect.
    so vote republican 6688 2011-09-19 09:32:23.0 login to vote score 0
    fatsean: A bit too regressive for my tastes, and it seems like such a tax would be even easier for the wealthy to avoid. Their LLC would purchase the good, pay the tax on it, deduct the tax and then gift it to the person maybe.

    Okay, here's the point with that. The tax was paid. There's no income tax to deduct it from.

    See how easy that was?
    quick1 501 2011-09-19 09:37:11.0 login to vote score 0
    so vote republican: Wat. This is simply incorrect.

    Which part?
    so vote republican 6688 2011-09-19 09:40:28.0 login to vote score 2
    quick1: Which part?

    "...inflation is pretty much a guarantee with any monetary system...".


    quick1 501 2011-09-19 09:46:40.0 login to vote score 0
    so vote republican: "...inflation is pretty much a guarantee with any monetary system...".

    [image removed]


    The first real inflationary data anywhere seems to start around 1914. There was still inflation with the gold standard, and while it was less than current, it a) still existed, and b) was prone to much more wild fluctuations.



    (1933 was when FDR moved us about halfway off the gold standard)
    so vote republican 6688 2011-09-19 09:49:00.0 login to vote score 0
    quick1: The first real inflationary data anywhere seems to start around 1914. There was still inflation with the gold standard, and while it was less than current, it a) still existed, and b) was prone to much more wild fluctuations.

    (1933 was when FDR moved us about halfway off the gold standard)


    1) We weren't discussing the gold standard.

    2) Can you really not see the chart? Do you just reject it out of hand? It's from PBS by the way.
    quick1 501 2011-09-19 09:55:20.0 login to vote score 0
    so vote republican: 1) We weren't discussing the gold standard.

    2) Can you really not see the chart? Do you just reject it out of hand? It's from PBS by the way.


    1) I thought we were discussing monetary systems.

    2) If we're appealing to authority, here's a chart from Wikipedia.


    so vote republican 6688 2011-09-19 10:00:06.0 login to vote score 1
    quick1: 1) I thought we were discussing monetary systems.

    Well, for me personally, we've been discussing inflationary goals. Entirely different. I apologize for not being more clear.

    2) If we're appealing to authority, here's a chart from Wikipedia.

    Linking to data is not "appealing to authority". I was just letting you know that my chart wasn't from Mises or something like that...

    Also, to be more clear, I was suggesting that continuous inflation is a modern problem, which the chart shows. Again, apologies for ambiguity.

    Under expected and constant inflation, savings are sure to be eaten away. If there are swings between inflation and deflation, prices average out to be stable and there is no drive to spend or save excessively.
    quick1 501 2011-09-19 10:23:51.0 login to vote score 0
    so vote republican: Well, for me personally, we've been discussing inflationary goals. Entirely different. I apologize for not being more clear.

    Yes, you haven't really been clear on what your inflationary goals have been thus far, until later in this post.

    2) If we're appealing to authority, here's a chart from Wikipedia.

    Linking to data is not "appealing to authority". I was just letting you know that my chart wasn't from Mises or something like that...


    It was a joke.

    Also, to be more clear, I was suggesting that continuous inflation is a modern problem, which the chart shows. Again, apologies for ambiguity.

    Under expected and constant inflation, savings are sure to be eaten away. If there are swings between inflation and deflation, prices average out to be stable and there is no drive to spend or save excessively.


    Yes, but you also have wild short term price fluctuations as a result, which makes things much harder to predict for both consumers and companies. I'll agree that the tradeoff is less of a drive to save when that savings can be eaten away, but it seems like that could be fixed if there was a way for the average person to realize that inflation rate in their savings account.
    so vote republican 6688 2011-09-19 10:59:53.0 login to vote score 1
    quick1: Yes, but you also have wild short term price fluctuations as a result, which makes things much harder to predict for both consumers and companies.

    Looking at your chart, post Civil War, things were remarkably stable for half a century until, oddly, the establishment of the Federal Reserve. Even before that with the exception of Wars, things were pretty stable.

    Cherry picking the 18 years including the Great Depression and WWI is a pretty cheesy way to establish stability.

    I'll agree that the tradeoff is less of a drive to save when that savings can be eaten away, but it seems like that could be fixed if there was a way for the average person to realize that inflation rate in their savings account.

    The tradeoff isn't just "less of a drive to save". The tradeoff is a marked desire to speculate.

    fatsean 3838 2011-09-19 17:21:00.0 login to vote score 0
    Inflation and economic growth do go hand-in-hand...
    If you logged in, you could post here.