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  • The top 25 christian reactions to #GODISNOTGREAT



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  • Tagged with : beware the jabberwock , insatiable cock lust , phil quixote , remind them that rabb , santic bitches , threadnaught

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    Comments 1 through 100 of 1816 shown. Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
    zylon 916 2011-12-18 20:48:51.0 login to vote score 3
    Religion of peace!
    bucket of truth 1525 2011-12-18 20:52:34.0 login to vote score 19
    the bon_scott 1073 2011-12-18 20:57:16.0 login to vote score 9
    abbynormal 1917 2011-12-18 20:57:27.0 login to vote score 4
    Because that's what Jesus would have tweeted!
    tass 609 2011-12-18 21:10:31.0 login to vote score 4
    FO REAL DOE GOD BEES DA BEST...ALL YALL KIN BURN IN HELL WIT YO WHOLE FALMY!!!


    *giggle*
    antialias 3250 2011-12-18 21:12:22.0 login to vote score 5
    My father and I had a conversation about Hitchens today. My father recently had been diagnosed with the same kind of cancer as Hitchens (just got the results regarding his treatment, by the way, no traces of tumors. Yay!) My dad didn't like him, thought he was too mean, too in your face. I pointed out that he was a fan of Carlin and the same could be said about Carlin. He said that Carlin was funny and Hitchens wasn't. I disagreed but neither of us wanted to make a big deal about it. We then had a nice talk about Carlin, and made plans to meet for dinner. We were both sad that someone had died, though, and felt that Hitchens led a full life.

    We're both agnostic.
    vic rattlehead 1283 2011-12-18 21:14:19.0 login to vote score 8
    Why is it that those with the least to say, and the least ability to say it, tend to speak the loudest and be repeated most?

    That being said, I would say that none of those people are all that confident in their faiths. If you're going to freak out over something this simple, what are you going to do when that faith is truly tested. Enlightenment is found in your own heart and not in some book, no matter what you believe in.




    zylon 916 2011-12-18 21:24:04.0 login to vote score 3
    #GODVSXBOX
    hodgie 310 2011-12-18 22:05:08.0 login to vote score 3
    antialias: My father and I had a conversation about Hitchens today. My father recently had been diagnosed with the same kind of cancer as Hitchens (just got the results regarding his treatment, by the way, no traces of tumors. Yay!) My dad didn't like him, thought he was too mean, too in your face. I pointed out that he was a fan of Carlin and the same could be said about Carlin. He said that Carlin was funny and Hitchens wasn't. I disagreed but neither of us wanted to make a big deal about it. We then had a nice talk about Carlin, and made plans to meet for dinner. We were both sad that someone had died, though, and felt that Hitchens led a full life.

    We're both agnostic.


    The difference is that Hitchins openly criticizes other people's beliefs while Carlin openly criticizes other people's actions. It is a weird, but relevant, distinction. People are less annoyed when you objectively point out the flaws in their actions because actions can change. Objectively pointing out flaws in beliefs cuts a bit deeper.

    /Happy for your good (and father's) good news
    muninsfire 189 2011-12-18 22:10:15.0 login to vote score 7
    It's rather funny how many of them called for the death of those causing the hashtag to trend...given that they all included said hashtag and, accordingly, helped it to trend.
    synthelim 6996 2011-12-18 22:40:21.0 login to vote score 4
    Christian butthurt is the best butthurt. Hands down.
    space 649 2011-12-19 04:02:17.0 login to vote score 3
    synthelim: Christian butthurt is the best butthurt. Hands down.

    No wonder there never is a shortage of alter boys.
    riverrat 2239 2011-12-19 04:15:55.0 login to vote score 0
    I rather liked the phrase in the last one, 'Santic Bitches'. Did the elves get replaced by hot wimmen?
    burntman 1528 2011-12-19 06:01:15.0 login to vote score 7
    phil_herup 8976 2011-12-19 06:11:02.0 login to vote score -1
    Wow.... they sound just like libs when they get all angry.

    They are obviously closely related.
    osirisothedead 1858 2011-12-19 06:14:45.0 login to vote score 3
    LOL @ phil thinking he's special enough to receive death threats!
    marla singer's laundry 10692 2011-12-19 06:21:40.0 login to vote score 3
    Who would Jesus impale?

    Ok, WHOM would he impale?
    eddyatwork 998 2011-12-19 06:26:31.0 login to vote score 0
    KILL PHIL!
    vic rattlehead 1283 2011-12-19 06:45:57.0 login to vote score 0
    I'm assuming the hash tag was related somehow to the death of Hitchens, when I say that I doubt any of the commenters shown knew what the tag was for. I've never gotten anything out of twitter so I have no idea, but I hope the majority of responses were more positive affirmations of personal faith.


    Oh wait, I'm on the internet, where rational thought and personal responsibility go to die. So has #GODISTOOGREAT trended in response.
    vic rattlehead 1283 2011-12-19 06:47:40.0 login to vote score 0
    Crap. I screwed that up. Should have been #GODISTOGREAT

    Although it works the other way too.
    fatsean 3838 2011-12-19 06:55:13.0 login to vote score 0
    People do tend to react aggressively when you challenge the beliefs that assuage their fears and egos.
    vic rattlehead 1283 2011-12-19 06:59:29.0 login to vote score 1
    fatsean: People do tend to react aggressively when you challenge the beliefs that assuage their fears and egos.

    Or even the lack thereof. :)
    willywanka 274 2011-12-19 07:04:13.0 login to vote score 0
    what's with all the calls for suicide? So...committing the sin of apostasy is absolved by...committing the sin of suicide? What, do they cancel each other out if you do it in the right manner and on the right day?
    vic rattlehead 1283 2011-12-19 07:06:43.0 login to vote score 0
    marla singer's laundry: Who would Jesus impale?

    Ok, WHOM would he impale?


    I'm not sure you could get away with it, but I would love to see a movie with the second coming where Jesus is here to kick ass. I don't know Revelations well, but imagine LotR style battles between the hordes of hell and an army led by Jesus. Remove the preaching and keep the action, allow the audience to draw their own conclusions.
    fallen from grace 5187 2011-12-19 07:10:50.0 login to vote score 4
    "Anybody this hateful got to have AIDS."

    Well sir or madam, I hope you have access to retrovirals and use condoms.
    fallen from grace 5187 2011-12-19 07:11:49.0 login to vote score 1
    willywanka: what's with all the calls for suicide? So...committing the sin of apostasy is absolved by...committing the sin of suicide? What, do they cancel each other out if you do it in the right manner and on the right day?

    Logic impairment is often a side-effect of cognitive dissonance. :)
    fatsean 3838 2011-12-19 07:14:21.0 login to vote score 0
    vic rattlehead: Or even the lack thereof. :)

    Huh? Every time someone says "god bless" that is an implicit declaration that there is a god, specifically their god. Not sure how being unconvinced of the arguments for gods assuages my ego and fear...it sure would be nice to know that I really am the center of the universe and that I get a second chance after my body dies...


    jimmythehutt 2751 2011-12-19 07:25:37.0 login to vote score 2
    vic rattlehead: I'm not sure you could get away with it, but I would love to see a movie with the second coming where Jesus is here to kick ass. I don't know Revelations well, but imagine LotR style battles between the hordes of hell and an army led by Jesus. Remove the preaching and keep the action, allow the audience to draw their own conclusions.

    Ahem.
    vic rattlehead 1283 2011-12-19 07:30:12.0 login to vote score 1
    fatsean: Huh? Every time someone says "god bless" that is an implicit declaration that there is a god, specifically their god. Not sure how being unconvinced of the arguments for gods assuages my ego and fear...it sure would be nice to know that I really am the center of the universe and that I get a second chance after my body dies...

    I was trying to make a joke and failed. You commented on people having their beliefs challenged getting upset. My response was poking good natured fun at those without beliefs getting bent out of shape when they are challenged for not believing. It was supposed to hook back to the hash tag having atheist connotations, and why I put a ":)" at the end.
    vic rattlehead 1283 2011-12-19 07:32:04.0 login to vote score 1
    jimmythehutt: Ahem.

    Ok, I stand corrected. Though I must admit I've never heard of this obviously underrated masterpiece.
    pajamas 7950 2011-12-19 07:32:27.0 login to vote score 2
    fatsean: Huh? Every time someone says "god bless" that is an implicit declaration that there is a god, specifically their god. Not sure how being unconvinced of the arguments for gods assuages my ego and fear...it sure would be nice to know that I really am the center of the universe and that I get a second chance after my body dies...

    I would like nothing better than to believe that the people I love continue on in some way after death. No evidence supports it. I would love to believe that there is a loving and benevolent plan involved in nature that should make purpose for everything. No evidence supports it. I would like, more than anything, to believe that despite what happens here, that good people are rewarded and bad ones punished somewhere, somehow. No evidence supports it.

    mostly, though, I wish there were a god I could understand, at least in part, and feel like the universe had me, as a person, at its heart, at the center, important.
    jimmythehutt 2751 2011-12-19 07:32:33.0 login to vote score 0
    vic rattlehead: Ok, I stand corrected. Though I must admit I've never heard of this obviously underrated masterpiece.

    It even has a musical number!
    fatsean 3838 2011-12-19 07:32:43.0 login to vote score 0
    vic rattlehead: I was trying to make a joke and failed. You commented on people having their beliefs challenged getting upset. My response was poking good natured fun at those without beliefs getting bent out of shape when they are challenged for not believing. It was supposed to hook back to the hash tag having atheist connotations, and why I put a ":)" at the end.

    Ah gotcha :)
    fatsean 3838 2011-12-19 07:42:03.0 login to vote score 0
    pajamas: I would like nothing better than to believe that the people I love continue on in some way after death. No evidence supports it. I would love to believe that there is a loving and benevolent plan involved in nature that should make purpose for everything. No evidence supports it. I would like, more than anything, to believe that despite what happens here, that good people are rewarded and bad ones punished somewhere, somehow. No evidence supports it.

    mostly, though, I wish there were a god I could understand, at least in part, and feel like the universe had me, as a person, at its heart, at the center, important.


    I just wish the believers in gods could understand that they don't need to get upset when I state that there is no god. It's the same thing as when they state there is a god. But that's just the cost of holding an unpopular viewpoint, no matter how logical or rational it is.
    vic rattlehead 1283 2011-12-19 07:47:06.0 login to vote score 0
    pajamas: I would like nothing better than to believe that the people I love continue on in some way after death. No evidence supports it. I would love to believe that there is a loving and benevolent plan involved in nature that should make purpose for everything. No evidence supports it. I would like, more than anything, to believe that despite what happens here, that good people are rewarded and bad ones punished somewhere, somehow. No evidence supports it.

    mostly, though, I wish there were a god I could understand, at least in part, and feel like the universe had me, as a person, at its heart, at the center, important.


    Unfortunately that is the catch of spirituality (which is different from religion). It only works because there is no evidence to support it. Our brains have evolved so that we fill in the unknown with stories that make us feel better. Religion preys on this aspect of our makeup. However, you can reject Religion and still believe. Religion is made by man, belief is made by you. You are free to have any spiritual belief you like, and if you believe then you need no evidence.
    code_7 6865 2011-12-19 07:47:13.0 login to vote score 1
    #GodIsNotGreat? I will shoot you in the face!

    I found this last night and just loved all these comments. Sadly though, I think these comments may reflect the majority of our country. Our education system is obviously failing at this point and the only answers out there seem to be defunding it. We are already slipping further and further behind the rest of the world and instead of investments and attempts to strengthen our flailing education system, the only new ideas that get any attention are attempts to destroy it.
    code_7 6865 2011-12-19 07:49:28.0 login to vote score 0
    jimmythehutt: Ahem.

    Holy hell. "Combining Kung-fu action with Biblical prophecy" this sounds awesome!
    jimmythehutt 2751 2011-12-19 07:50:08.0 login to vote score 1
    code_7: Holy hell. "Combining Kung-fu action with Biblical prophecy" this sounds awesome!

    One of the best bad movies I've ever seen.
    vic rattlehead 1283 2011-12-19 07:50:22.0 login to vote score 0
    fatsean: I just wish the believers in gods could understand that they don't need to get upset when I state that there is no god. It's the same thing as when they state there is a god. But that's just the cost of holding an unpopular viewpoint, no matter how logical or rational it is.

    Not all of us get upset. In fact, it's encouraging to me, because it affirms my free will, and yours.
    paranoyd 6555 2011-12-19 07:55:54.0 login to vote score 0
    fatsean: Huh? Every time someone says "god bless" that is an implicit declaration that there is a god, specifically their god. Not sure how being unconvinced of the arguments for gods assuages my ego and fear...it sure would be nice to know that I really am the center of the universe and that I get a second chance after my body dies...

    Well, God Bless.
    paranoyd 6555 2011-12-19 07:57:44.0 login to vote score 1
    pajamas: I would like nothing better than to believe that the people I love continue on in some way after death. No evidence supports it. I would love to believe that there is a loving and benevolent plan involved in nature that should make purpose for everything. No evidence supports it. I would like, more than anything, to believe that despite what happens here, that good people are rewarded and bad ones punished somewhere, somehow. No evidence supports it.

    mostly, though, I wish there were a god I could understand, at least in part, and feel like the universe had me, as a person, at its heart, at the center, important.


    Belief doesn't require proof. Knowledge does. You want actual knowledge.
    paranoyd 6555 2011-12-19 07:59:43.0 login to vote score 1
    Personally, I like this gem "everyone needs to go to fucking hell for that shit" from "SukmyVick".

    Classy.
    code_7 6865 2011-12-19 08:07:25.0 login to vote score 3
    fatsean: I just wish the believers in gods could understand that they don't need to get upset when I state that there is no god. It's the same thing as when they state there is a god. But that's just the cost of holding an unpopular viewpoint, no matter how logical or rational it is.

    If the adherents and the pushers of the religion really followed what their religion preached, we'd all be a lot better off. As it is though, most seem to be so insecure in their beliefs that any questioning of the system are perceived as grave threats.

    I'm really not suggesting that I know their religion better than they but I do understand the basic tenants and turning the other cheek seems to be a major theme of the new testament.

    How fucked up do you have to be to think that your god, creator of life, the universe and everything needs you to defend it?
    fatsean 3838 2011-12-19 08:09:33.0 login to vote score 1
    vic rattlehead: Not all of us get upset. In fact, it's encouraging to me, because it affirms my free will, and yours.

    That's good to hear. I'll try to remember that the next time people get all angsty and bitchy about "in your face atheists" when another "God probably doesn't exist" billboard goes up :)
    fatsean 3838 2011-12-19 08:10:33.0 login to vote score 0
    code_7: If the adherents and the pushers of the religion really followed what their religion preached, we'd all be a lot better off. As it is though, most seem to be so insecure in their beliefs that any questioning of the system are perceived as grave threats.

    I'm really not suggesting that I know their religion better than they but I do understand the basic tenants and turning the other cheek seems to be a major theme of the new testament.

    How fucked up do you have to be to think that your god, creator of life, the universe and everything needs you to defend it?


    It's just selfishness on their part. Their faith isn't all that strong I guess. They aren't defending their god, their defending their choice against someone who disagrees with them I think.
    fatsean 3838 2011-12-19 08:11:16.0 login to vote score 1
    paranoyd: Well, God Bless.

    Your god is a rapist ;)
    vic rattlehead 1283 2011-12-19 08:21:34.0 login to vote score 2
    code_7: If the adherents and the pushers of the religion really followed what their religion preached, we'd all be a lot better off. As it is though, most seem to be so insecure in their beliefs that any questioning of the system are perceived as grave threats.

    I'm really not suggesting that I know their religion better than they but I do understand the basic tenants and turning the other cheek seems to be a major theme of the new testament.

    How fucked up do you have to be to think that your god, creator of life, the universe and everything needs you to defend it?


    It's the RELIGION talking, not the belief. Religion corrupts the message to serve its own ends. I walked out of a church orientation class one time when the minister said they believed in the "right interpretation" of the bible. I asked what that interpretation was and he said, "it's the one we teach you." I got up in front of probably 40 people in the class, said "No thank you." and walked out.

    vic rattlehead 1283 2011-12-19 08:45:43.0 login to vote score 1
    fatsean: That's good to hear. I'll try to remember that the next time people get all angsty and bitchy about "in your face atheists" when another "God probably doesn't exist" billboard goes up :)

    I'm still working on getting all the premises straight but I'm working on a logic argument in favor of the probability of the existence of "entity(ies) that are the basis for human belief in diety." It's mostly just a thought experiment, but I find challenging the status quo of belief is key to happiness in those beliefs. Much better than believing because someone told you to believe.

    If I ever get it to make sense it could make for a great thread. Maybe around Easter when the hurr is at its highest.
    paranoyd 6555 2011-12-19 09:07:02.0 login to vote score 4
    fatsean: Your god is a rapist ;)

    The Macho Burrito with Guacamole is a rapist?
    pajamas 7950 2011-12-19 09:09:20.0 login to vote score 0
    vic rattlehead: Unfortunately that is the catch of spirituality (which is different from religion). It only works because there is no evidence to support it. Our brains have evolved so that we fill in the unknown with stories that make us feel better. Religion preys on this aspect of our makeup. However, you can reject Religion and still believe. Religion is made by man, belief is made by you. You are free to have any spiritual belief you like, and if you believe then you need no evidence.

    Do you think it's at all dangerous to encourage people to believe things for which no evidence possibly exists?
    fatsean 3838 2011-12-19 09:10:18.0 login to vote score 5
    paranoyd: The Macho Burrito with Guacamole is a rapist?

    What it did to my bunghole was against my will!
    paranoyd 6555 2011-12-19 09:10:23.0 login to vote score 0
    pajamas: Do you think it's at all dangerous to encourage people to believe things for which no evidence possibly exists?

    Too general a statement.

    There's no real problem believing in the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy.
    paranoyd 6555 2011-12-19 09:10:57.0 login to vote score 3
    fatsean: What it did to my bunghole was against my will!

    Use less Wholly Hell Hot Sauce.
    pajamas 7950 2011-12-19 09:25:31.0 login to vote score 0
    paranoyd: Too general a statement.

    There's no real problem believing in the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy.


    Do you think this is true? Honestly?
    willywanka 274 2011-12-19 09:33:39.0 login to vote score 0
    pajamas: Do you think this is true? Honestly?

    yes. honestly. I also don't feel the need when reading a child Alice in Wonderland (for example) to stop every few seconds and remind them that rabb
    willywanka 274 2011-12-19 09:34:20.0 login to vote score 1
    whoops...that rabbits don't talk, playing cards don't fight each other and there's no such thing as a jabberwocky.
    bunnythor 544 2011-12-19 09:36:05.0 login to vote score 0
    willywanka: yes. honestly. I also don't feel the need when reading a child Alice in Wonderland (for example) to stop every few seconds and remind them that rabb

    Tag did you say?
    bunnythor 544 2011-12-19 09:39:12.0 login to vote score 1
    willywanka: whoops...that rabbits don't talk, playing cards don't fight each other and there's no such thing as a jabberwocky.

    Course not. There is a Jabberwock though. Says so right in the scripture:

    "Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
    The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
    Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
    The frumious Bandersnatch!"

    phil_herup 8976 2011-12-19 09:41:47.0 login to vote score 0
    pajamas: Do you think it's at all dangerous to encourage people to believe things for which no evidence possibly exists?


    Like the success of Obama's Presidency?
    paranoyd 6555 2011-12-19 09:43:15.0 login to vote score 0
    pajamas: Do you think this is true? Honestly?

    Yes. Why don't you?
    fatsean 3838 2011-12-19 09:45:37.0 login to vote score 0
    willywanka: whoops...that rabbits don't talk, playing cards don't fight each other and there's no such thing as a jabberwocky.

    But when the children grow up, they no longer believe that rabbits talk, playing cards fight and there is a jabberwocky.
    paranoyd 6555 2011-12-19 09:47:49.0 login to vote score 3
    phil_herup: Like the success of Obama's Presidency?

    Good 'ol Phil Quixote.
    willywanka 274 2011-12-19 09:48:02.0 login to vote score 1
    fatsean: But when the children grow up, they no longer believe that rabbits talk, playing cards fight and there is a jabberwocky.

    I don't know too many adults who believe that the tooth fairy or the easter bunny are real either, which was the whole point paranoyd was making about it being too broad.
    phil_herup 8976 2011-12-19 09:51:36.0 login to vote score 0
    paranoyd: Good 'ol Phil Quixote.


    since we are talking about religious behavior and blind faith, i thought it was apropos.
    jimmythehutt 2751 2011-12-19 09:55:19.0 login to vote score 1
    paranoyd: Good 'ol Phil Quixote.

    Meme'd and Tagg'd.
    fatsean 3838 2011-12-19 09:57:11.0 login to vote score 1
    willywanka: I don't know too many adults who believe that the tooth fairy or the easter bunny are real either, which was the whole point paranoyd was making about it being too broad.

    Because the same adults who told children that the tooth fairy is real eventually admit that the tooth fairy is fictional. If only they were as honest about their spiritual claims.
    vic rattlehead 1283 2011-12-19 10:00:45.0 login to vote score 0
    pajamas: Do you think it's at all dangerous to encourage people to believe things for which no evidence possibly exists?

    Only for the unbalanced, and even then I'm not so sure its dangerous. First, beliefs are personal and do not require any evidence. Second, your statement of evidence is a bit close minded - there is evidence all around us of many things, and each of us has the right to accept that evidence or not. You can only say there is no evidence that persuaded or convinces you. We all choose to believe things on faith alone all the time, sometimes we have good reason for that faith other times we don't. Belief is personal. What I was saying is we all have the free will to believe anything we want. You said you wished you could believe. The choice is yours. Now, if you must know, then that's a problem.
    pajamas 7950 2011-12-19 10:04:21.0 login to vote score 2
    paranoyd: Yes. Why don't you?

    Because I think there is a difference between an intentional fiction, used as a storytelling device and a lie meant to be believed.
    paranoyd 6555 2011-12-19 10:07:54.0 login to vote score 0
    pajamas: Because I think there is a difference between an intentional fiction, used as a storytelling device and a lie meant to be believed.

    Do you think the Easter Bunny is a storytelling device or a lie meant to be believed?
    jimmythehutt 2751 2011-12-19 10:10:58.0 login to vote score 2
    paranoyd: Do you think the Easter Bunny is a storytelling device or a lie meant to be believed?

    I think it's an excuse to give little kids chocolate and encourage them to hunt for hidden brightly colored objects.
    paranoyd 6555 2011-12-19 10:15:04.0 login to vote score 0
    jimmythehutt: I think it's an excuse to give little kids chocolate and encourage them to hunt for hidden brightly colored objects.

    Sure. So what's the problem?
    paranoyd 6555 2011-12-19 10:15:29.0 login to vote score 0
    pajamas: Because I think there is a difference between an intentional fiction, used as a storytelling device and a lie meant to be believed.

    So, no Santa, either, huh?
    jimmythehutt 2751 2011-12-19 10:15:43.0 login to vote score 1
    paranoyd: Sure. So what's the problem?

    It stops working by the time they start reading. Then, you just give them the chocolate.
    paranoyd 6555 2011-12-19 10:18:18.0 login to vote score 1
    jimmythehutt: It stops working by the time they start reading. Then, you just give them the chocolate.

    Well, not entirely, but I know what you're saying. But again I ask, what is the problem, exactly, with allowing children a sense of wonder about the world until they are old enough to have it beaten out of them by life?
    vic rattlehead 1283 2011-12-19 10:20:37.0 login to vote score 4
    fatsean: Because the same adults who told children that the tooth fairy is real eventually admit that the tooth fairy is fictional. If only they were as honest about their spiritual claims.

    The human brain has evolved with the ability and in general the need to believe in stories that answer the unanswerable. I think its wrong to say there is no evidence to support belief, because there is evidence. Each person has the free will to give that evidence credibility or dismiss it. The truth is there are no ANSWERS to unanswerable questions. Spirituality has no ANSWER because it is not susceptible to human senses. I would say belief in the Bible is no more rational than belief in Santa. But you can still choose to do so. Think of this, scientists accept the existence of gravity because they can observe and measure its effect in the world. Spirituality is accepted by those who can observe and even measure its effect in the world. Here is the thing both Gravity and Religion actually exist. I personally cannot see the cause of either or understand the math needed to prove it. I must have faith that the scientists are telling me the truth. Religion is based on its followers having faith in its basis. I personally can no more prove that gravity keeps me on this earth, than I can prove God does. From the perspective of the person it is the same if they choose to believe.
    burntman 1528 2011-12-19 10:25:44.0 login to vote score 3
    vic rattlehead: The human brain has evolved with the ability and in general the need to believe in stories that answer the unanswerable. I think its wrong to say there is no evidence to support belief, because there is evidence. Each person has the free will to give that evidence credibility or dismiss it. The truth is there are no ANSWERS to unanswerable questions. Spirituality has no ANSWER because it is not susceptible to human senses. I would say belief in the Bible is no more rational than belief in Santa. But you can still choose to do so. Think of this, scientists accept the existence of gravity because they can observe and measure its effect in the world. Spirituality is accepted by those who can observe and even measure its effect in the world. Here is the thing both Gravity and Religion actually exist. I personally cannot see the cause of either or understand the math needed to prove it. I must have faith that the scientists are telling me the truth. Religion is based on its followers having faith in its basis. I personally can no more prove that gravity keeps me on this earth, than I can prove God does. From the perspective of the person it is the same if they choose to believe.

    Very well said. I agree with you completely. The only caveat I would put, would be that slavish adherence to a dogma associated with religion can be detrimental in that it can actively prevent learning and intellectual growth.
    willywanka 274 2011-12-19 10:25:56.0 login to vote score 1
    but...what if god was one of us?

    marla singer's laundry 10692 2011-12-19 10:26:00.0 login to vote score 0
    vic rattlehead: From the perspective of the person it is the same if they choose to believe.

    You can't see an electron, either, dummy, but you can build a computer that operates on them.

    Try building a computer that runs on prayer and faith. See the difference now?
    vic rattlehead 1283 2011-12-19 10:30:16.0 login to vote score 0
    pajamas: Because I think there is a difference between an intentional fiction, used as a storytelling device and a lie meant to be believed.

    That line of reasoning relieves you of personal responsibility for your beliefs. If I tell you that if you eat the apple I give you that you will die, you have the responsibility for your own belief. You must weigh all the evidence and choose whether to believe me or not. If my friend says, the apple is safe and I will give you a million dollars to eat it. You are still responsible for your belief in me or my friend. You do not possess the equipment to test the apple, so you are left to decide who to believe, and you bear the sole responsibility for the consequences of that belief. Spirituality is no different.
    vic rattlehead 1283 2011-12-19 10:34:07.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman: Very well said. I agree with you completely. The only caveat I would put, would be that slavish adherence to a dogma associated with religion can be detrimental in that it can actively prevent learning and intellectual growth.

    I fully agree with you, but is slavish adherence really belief? I would say not. Religion is a human creation designed to vest power in some human. Belief can either enslave you or set you free. Either way, you can believe whatever you want.
    vic rattlehead 1283 2011-12-19 10:36:11.0 login to vote score 1
    marla singer's laundry: You can't see an electron, either, dummy, but you can build a computer that operates on them.

    Try building a computer that runs on prayer and faith. See the difference now?


    I can't see God, either, but I can build a church that operates on him. Try building a church around an electron. See the similarity now.
    jimmythehutt 2751 2011-12-19 10:39:17.0 login to vote score 0
    vic rattlehead 1283 2011-12-19 10:40:18.0 login to vote score 0
    willywanka: but...what if god was one of us?

    Some claim that for a while he was. The only question is,

    DO YOU WANT TO BELIEVE?
    burntman 1528 2011-12-19 10:40:38.0 login to vote score 0
    vic rattlehead: I fully agree with you, but is slavish adherence really belief? I would say not. Religion is a human creation designed to vest power in some human. Belief can either enslave you or set you free. Either way, you can believe whatever you want.

    yeah, sure if you view belief and scripture as distinct then I'm with you. In practice though, most religions do have some dogmatic component in the form of scripture or common teachings.
    vic rattlehead 1283 2011-12-19 10:48:58.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman: yeah, sure if you view belief and scripture as distinct then I'm with you. In practice though, most religions do have some dogmatic component in the form of scripture or common teachings.

    And that is the problem with all of these discussions about God, religion, and spirituality. The terms are related but not equal. The beauty of free will is that you don't have to let any person, book, hallucination, whatever tell you what to believe. Choose to be free of all manmade constructs of what God is or is not, then believe or do not believe. As humans we lack the ability to know the truth, so there are no Answers, only choice.
    burntman 1528 2011-12-19 11:02:53.0 login to vote score 2
    vic rattlehead: As humans we lack the ability to know the truth, so there are no Answers, only choice.

    There's choice made on the basis of critical understanding and choice made under the directive of dogma. Those are very different things.

    And even if there are no right answers, some answers are most definitely more wrong than others. If, with a contemporary education, you believe the earth is 6000 years old, then you are quite simply very wrong.
    marla singer's laundry 10692 2011-12-19 11:11:52.0 login to vote score 0
    vic rattlehead: I can't see God, either, but I can build a church that operates on him. Try building a church around an electron. See the similarity now.

    Oh, you're trolling. Cute.
    fatsean 3838 2011-12-19 11:14:18.0 login to vote score 0
    vic rattlehead: I can't see God, either, but I can build a church that operates on him. Try building a church around an electron. See the similarity now.

    I can make up stories about electrons just as easily as I can make up stories about gods. same diff!
    osirisothedead 1858 2011-12-19 11:16:04.0 login to vote score 0
    vic rattlehead: I can't see God, either, but I can build a church that operates on him. Try building a church around an electron. See the similarity now.

    That's just, well, dumb.
    spongegirl circleskirt 382 2011-12-19 11:20:24.0 login to vote score 5
    fatsean: I can make up stories about electrons just as easily as I can make up stories about gods. same diff!

    Two atoms were walking across a road when one of them said, "I think I lost an electron!" "Really!" the other replied, "Are you sure?" "Yes, I 'm absolutely positive."
    vic rattlehead 1283 2011-12-19 11:30:29.0 login to vote score 1
    burntman: There's choice made on the basis of critical understanding and choice made under the directive of dogma. Those are very different things.

    And even if there are no right answers, some answers are most definitely more wrong than others. If, with a contemporary education, you believe the earth is 6000 years old, then you are quite simply very wrong.


    Absolutely its wrong that Earth is 6000 years old, but free will allows for that belief, evolution makes it possible for our brain to lie to us. When I say there are no Answers, I am referring to spiritual questions. You cannot have a rational debate about spiritual matters, because there are no actual answers. All of the answers are based on belief. Beliefs exist only in the absence of proof. Once proven a belief becomes knowledge.
    vic rattlehead 1283 2011-12-19 11:48:55.0 login to vote score 1
    marla singer's laundry: Oh, you're trolling. Cute.

    Yes, a bit. But only to make a point. Reduce a computer and a church to some common terms, such as "a collection of matter which accepts input and produces output." (A gross simplification but imagine not knowing what either was, nor knowing what electrons or God was.) At this level you would see an the components of these to things to change their states. As an impartial and wholly objective observer you would not know what invisible force caused those components to do something.

    We can observe electrons, and measure their movement because we have the technology to augment our senses. We dismiss the existence of God because our senses cannot detect him, yet for some weird reason billions of people respond to a diety they cannot know.

    Its a silly thought experiment, but if you can free yourself of what you know and believe and look at only what you can sense as a human, it's hard to deny that something causes Religion to occur. What that something is, is what you believe. Maybe God is a small group of neurons and synapses located in most peoples brains and belief is purely a biological process.
    sabine 745 2011-12-19 11:53:04.0 login to vote score 4
    vic rattlehead: it's hard to deny that something causes Religion to occur

    One vote for "fear of the unknown".
    burntman 1528 2011-12-19 11:56:54.0 login to vote score 0
    vic rattlehead: Absolutely its wrong that Earth is 6000 years old, but free will allows for that belief, evolution makes it possible for our brain to lie to us. When I say there are no Answers, I am referring to spiritual questions. You cannot have a rational debate about spiritual matters, because there are no actual answers. All of the answers are based on belief. Beliefs exist only in the absence of proof. Once proven a belief becomes knowledge.

    Ah, sorry, my bad. I thought you were referring to 'answers' in the generality.

    Ok, as concerns spiritual matters, I think one can indeed have constructive rational debate on all aspects of it. Indeed, I'll go so far as to say that such constructive debate is desirable. Where it all goes wrong IMO is when a person finds themselves unable to accept new ideas due to conflicts with their existing ideas. And that's not something unique to religion, rather that's just the human trait of trying to avoid cognitive dissonance. What religion does do however is promote a fixed belief structure which is often ridiculously archaic and irrelevant or in the worst case, blatantly erroneous. That can cause the real problem of a person finding themselves unable to reconcile their religion with our modern understanding of the world.

    vic rattlehead: Beliefs exist only in the absence of proof. Once proven a belief becomes knowledge.

    When the belief takes the form of an existential claim, then one can indeed be tasked as to the premise of the belief. If I say "I believe in ghosts", then the question "why do I believe in ghosts?" is a valid one.
    paranoyd 6555 2011-12-19 11:58:26.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman:
    When the belief takes the form of an existential claim, then one can indeed be tasked as to the premise of the belief. If I say "I believe in ghosts", then the question "why do I believe in ghosts?" is a valid one.


    And "Because I feel like it." is a valid answer.
    fatsean 3838 2011-12-19 12:00:30.0 login to vote score 0
    sabine: One vote for "fear of the unknown".

    Another vote for feeling unimportant.
    burntman 1528 2011-12-19 12:02:45.0 login to vote score 1
    paranoyd: And "Because I feel like it." is a valid answer.

    no, it's not.
    paranoyd 6555 2011-12-19 12:03:53.0 login to vote score 1
    sabine: One vote for "fear of the unknown".

    There's also the idea that people need people, and when they see people congregating for some reason, they want to be a part of it. I know that some people I know who attend the Temple do so not because of their unwavering belief in Judaism, but because they enjoy the feeling of community. (To which I generally say, why not find a hobby that attracts lots of people and do that.)
    paranoyd 6555 2011-12-19 12:04:20.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman: no, it's not.

    Yes, it is. It is not, however, a valid reason for why I think YOU should believe in ghosts.
    burntman 1528 2011-12-19 12:04:54.0 login to vote score 1
    sabine: One vote for "fear of the unknown".

    I'll go with the idea/sense of a soul being a product of self awareness. Everything else builds on from that.
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