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  • Most new cars are taking away your (fucked-up) driving priveledges whether you realize it or not. Enjoy the ride.



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  • Tagged with : priveledges

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    phil_herup 8976 2012-01-26 15:49:04.0 login to vote score 12
    If it can get my drink ass home from a bar, I'm in
    fathead jones 8080 2012-01-26 15:54:53.0 login to vote score 0
    How about the car companies figure out how to make an automatic as efficient as a stickshift first. There's no reason my wife's car should jump to 4th at the earliest opportunity when it takes less throttle to maintain that speed in 3rd. I'm not talking about "getting out of the hole" or "negotiating a hill", I'm talking about maintaining 35 mph on the flat.

    /I hate driving that slushbox
    //give me my 40 mpg stickshift any day of the week.
    fathead jones 8080 2012-01-26 15:56:10.0 login to vote score 2
    Also, the moment my route gets QOSed for someone else is the day I snap out and kill people.
    sabine 745 2012-01-26 15:59:10.0 login to vote score 0
    fathead jones: the moment my route gets QOSed for someone else is the day I snap out and kill people

    Some regions have what they call HOT (high-occupancy/toll) lanes. Basically you can buy your way into the carpool lane.
    phil_herup 8976 2012-01-26 15:59:23.0 login to vote score 0
    fathead jones: How about the car companies figure out how to make an automatic as efficient as a stickshift first.



    The dual clutch automated "manuals" in cars like the GTI are already here.
    untrustworthy 1 2012-01-26 16:00:01.0 login to vote score 0
    fathead jones: How about the car companies figure out how to make an automatic as efficient as a stickshift first. There's no reason my wife's car should jump to 4th at the earliest opportunity when it takes less throttle to maintain that speed in 3rd. I'm not talking about "getting out of the hole" or "negotiating a hill", I'm talking about maintaining 35 mph on the flat.

    /I hate driving that slushbox
    //give me my 40 mpg stickshift any day of the week.


    That's one nice thing about moving to tiptronic. Split the difference.
    spongegirl circleskirt 382 2012-01-26 16:01:18.0 login to vote score 0
    phil_herup: If it can get my drink ass home from a bar, I'm in

    Ayup!
    untrustworthy 1 2012-01-26 16:05:52.0 login to vote score 0
    And tiptronic with paddle shifters is the best way to go, IMHO.
    grahams 5 2012-01-26 16:08:12.0 login to vote score 1
    sabine: Some regions have what they call HOT (high-occupancy/toll) lanes. Basically you can buy your way into the carpool lane.

    Only in the US would a high occupancy lane mean "not 1"
    shocker 99 2012-01-26 16:08:43.0 login to vote score 1

    Please give these cars to all Asian women
    surfnazi 932 2012-01-26 16:11:04.0 login to vote score 0
    fathead jones: How about the car companies figure out how to make an automatic as efficient as a stickshift first. There's no reason my wife's car should jump to 4th at the earliest opportunity when it takes less throttle to maintain that speed in 3rd. I'm not talking about "getting out of the hole" or "negotiating a hill", I'm talking about maintaining 35 mph on the flat.

    /I hate driving that slushbox
    //give me my 40 mpg stickshift any day of the week.


    Because it costs more to have a good transmission.
    sabine 745 2012-01-26 16:11:41.0 login to vote score 1
    grahams: Only in the US would a high occupancy lane mean "not 1"

    Yeah, although there are rare exceptions. SR-520 in Seattle requires 3 occupants.
    burntman 1528 2012-01-26 16:12:20.0 login to vote score 4
    phil_herup: If it can get my drink ass home from a bar, I'm in

    That's why I go lo-tech.

    He knows the way home:



    iadtatami 682 2012-01-26 16:16:44.0 login to vote score 1
    There's concern over how long people would be permitted to actively drive after autonomous vehicles hit the mainstream (safety concerns), then there's the question of whether police should have the ability to remotely force autonomous cars to pull over. Once cops can do it, properly equipped carjackers and bandits would likely also be able to do so soon after.
    elebrin 1389 2012-01-26 16:19:25.0 login to vote score 0
    fathead jones: How about the car companies figure out how to make an automatic as efficient as a stickshift first. There's no reason my wife's car should jump to 4th at the earliest opportunity when it takes less throttle to maintain that speed in 3rd. I'm not talking about "getting out of the hole" or "negotiating a hill", I'm talking about maintaining 35 mph on the flat.

    /I hate driving that slushbox
    //give me my 40 mpg stickshift any day of the week.


    I would love to learn to drive a stick, sadly I am a single-thing-at-a-time kind of person. I don't multitask well. Adding a shifter into the mix would screw me all up. With my memory there would be about a 50% chance I would screw it all up. My muscle memory is super amazing and awesome, but my intellectual memory is very, very poor.
    grahams 5 2012-01-26 16:32:32.0 login to vote score 0
    elebrin: I would love to learn to drive a stick, sadly I am a single-thing-at-a-time kind of person. I don't multitask well. Adding a shifter into the mix would screw me all up. With my memory there would be about a 50% chance I would screw it all up. My muscle memory is super amazing and awesome, but my intellectual memory is very, very poor.

    It becomes all muscle memory. Once you've got it down you hardly think about it. I no longer have any trouble switching the hand i shift with.
    so vote republican 6688 2012-01-26 16:39:01.0 login to vote score 2
    grahams: Only in the US would a high occupancy lane mean "not 1"

    That's why I hate America!
    quick1 501 2012-01-26 16:50:44.0 login to vote score 0
    iadtatami: There's concern over how long people would be permitted to actively drive after autonomous vehicles hit the mainstream (safety concerns), then there's the question of whether police should have the ability to remotely force autonomous cars to pull over. Once cops can do it, properly equipped carjackers and bandits would likely also be able to do so soon after.

    Considering that there is no way an autonomous car can be breaking the law, the police shouldn't need to pull it over. And if a suspect is inside the car, they can just turn their automatic police car to follow mode, and take a nap until the criminal decides to stop.
    so vote republican 6688 2012-01-26 16:53:22.0 login to vote score 0
    quick1: Considering that there is no way an autonomous car can be breaking the law, the police shouldn't need to pull it over. And if a suspect is inside the car, they can just turn their automatic police car to follow mode, and take a nap until the criminal decides to stop.

    Unregistered vehicle or kidnapping victim.
    baron muchhumpin 4248 2012-01-26 16:55:30.0 login to vote score 4
    Could you pleased repeat the destination?


    quick1 501 2012-01-26 17:01:17.0 login to vote score 0
    so vote republican: Unregistered vehicle or kidnapping victim.

    Unregistered car doesn't need an immediate pullover. Kidnapping maybe, but again if you know the suspect is in the car, just follow him until he gets to his dungeon. As a bonus, you find out where his dungeon is with more incriminating evidence.
    roughmarble 226 2012-01-26 17:14:38.0 login to vote score 0
    grahams: It becomes all muscle memory. Once you've got it down you hardly think about it. I no longer have any trouble switching the hand i shift with.

    fap?
    eddyatwork 998 2012-01-26 17:16:11.0 login to vote score 0
    I don't understand why people enjoy driving so much. I'd rather input a destination and just sit back and enjoy the ride or play a game or just sleep.
    blandly pompous 5389 2012-01-26 17:23:18.0 login to vote score 0
    fathead jones: How about the car companies figure out how to make an automatic as efficient as a stickshift first.

    A torque converter is always less than 100 percent efficient so unless it is removed from the equation, that won't happen.
    surfnazi 932 2012-01-26 17:26:00.0 login to vote score 0
    blandly pompous: A torque converter is always less than 100 percent efficient so unless it is removed from the equation, that won't happen.

    I was under the impression that most modern torque converters were locking.
    blandly pompous 5389 2012-01-26 17:31:48.0 login to vote score 0
    surfnazi: I was under the impression that most modern torque converters were locking.

    When they lock up the torque converter part is basically out of the equation so at that point they are just as efficient as a clutch.
    throwingknife 1634 2012-01-26 17:50:13.0 login to vote score 0
    fathead jones: How about the car companies figure out how to make an automatic as efficient as a stickshift first. There's no reason my wife's car should jump to 4th at the earliest opportunity when it takes less throttle to maintain that speed in 3rd. I'm not talking about "getting out of the hole" or "negotiating a hill", I'm talking about maintaining 35 mph on the flat.

    /I hate driving that slushbox
    //give me my 40 mpg stickshift any day of the week.


    As I recall, some years ago the automatic transmission version of the Nissan Maxima had better estimated mileage than the manual.

    I'm not sure, though, if they did this with gimmicks. For example, my car as a "Normal/Power" button for how the transmission shifts. Presumably, "Normal" (also known as slushbox mode) is for the EPA test and "Power" is for when you actually want to go somewhere, merge, etc.
    throwingknife 1634 2012-01-26 18:13:26.0 login to vote score 1
    phil_herup: If it can get my drink ass home from a bar, I'm in

    I would have liked a robot driving me home tonight, despite being quite sober, not drink at all. It was dark and raining hard, so lane markers were invisible. Pooling and puddling on the road even made potholes disappear.

    On the other hand, I wonder if the robot cars are able to understand that when you see one deer, there may be others. When you're on a sleepy residential street and you see a small child with a ball off the left side of the road, there might just be another child invisible behind the parked car on the right you're about to pass. (In my 25 MPH neighborhood, I slow down WAY below that when I see kids. I actually had a kid dart out from behind a parked car. I'm pleased to say I was able to stop OK.)
    gradivus 3607 2012-01-26 18:15:31.0 login to vote score 0
    untrustworthy: That's one nice thing about moving to tiptronic. Split the difference.

    Worst of both worlds.
    bunnythor 544 2012-01-26 18:22:15.0 login to vote score 0
    iadtatami: There's concern over how long people would be permitted to actively drive after autonomous vehicles hit the mainstream

    Hopefully not very long. The whole system would be safer if manual driving mode was disable on public roadways.

    Seriously, every year of driving is worse than 11 9-11s.
    baron muchhumpin 4248 2012-01-26 18:23:46.0 login to vote score 0
    bunnythor: Hopefully not very long. The whole system would be safer if manual driving mode was disable on public roadways.

    Seriously, every year of driving is worse than 11 9-11s.


    considering the reluctance of people to move past their 1950/60/70/80 pieces of shit, I'd say we're 30 years away from any kind of mandatory conversion

    surfnazi 932 2012-01-26 18:26:54.0 login to vote score 0
    bunnythor: Hopefully not very long. The whole system would be safer if manual driving mode was disable on public roadways.

    Seriously, every year of driving is worse than 11 9-11s.


    Not letting people drive themselves to work is worse than ininity 9/11s.
    surfnazi 932 2012-01-26 18:27:06.0 login to vote score 0
    +f
    bunnythor 544 2012-01-26 18:32:16.0 login to vote score 1
    baron muchhumpin: considering the reluctance of people to move past their 1950/60/70/80 pieces of shit, I'd say we're 30 years away from any kind of mandatory conversion

    Depends if this one of those tipping point phenomena or not. Yes, there are plenty of people who enjoy driving for driving's sake, but for a lot of people, especially in or around cities, driving is a stressful chore.

    I think it is possible that many people will try an autonomous auto and then wonder how they ever lived without one. Sort of like cell phones, or the internet.

    \ C'mon, a show of hands . . . How many of you actually enjoy driving in rush hour traffic?
    baron muchhumpin 4248 2012-01-26 18:33:56.0 login to vote score 0
    bunnythor: Depends if this one of those tipping point phenomena or not. Yes, there are plenty of people who enjoy driving for driving's sake, but for a lot of people, especially in or around cities, driving is a stressful chore.

    I think it is possible that many people will try an autonomous auto and then wonder how they ever lived without one. Sort of like cell phones, or the internet.

    C'mon, a show of hands . . . How many of you actually enjoy driving in rush hour traffic?


    Agreed in certain situations I'd love it if everyone was forced to simply: Stay in your fucking lane asshole, racing up 10 feet in bumper 2 bumper traffic doesn't accomplish anything, and FFS pay attention!

    bunnythor 544 2012-01-26 18:35:27.0 login to vote score 1
    surfnazi: Not letting people drive themselves to work is worse than ininity 9/11s.

    Really? Having the "privilege" of sitting in rush-hour every morning is worth 350,000 lives a year?
    baron muchhumpin 4248 2012-01-26 18:38:08.0 login to vote score 0
    bunnythor: Really? Having the "privilege" of sitting in rush-hour every morning is worth 350,000 lives a year?

    People will always find a way to kill themselves and others stupidly..

    bunnythor 544 2012-01-26 18:38:49.0 login to vote score 0
    I believe that in 20 years, "driving" will be a skill that is as valuable and widely practiced as "horseback riding" is today.
    surfnazi 932 2012-01-26 18:39:07.0 login to vote score 1
    bunnythor: Really? Having the "privilege" of sitting in rush-hour every morning is worth 350,000 lives a year?

    The second some robo car tells ME that I can't do 90 my freedoms are gone and we're in Auschwitz.
    bunnythor 544 2012-01-26 18:42:35.0 login to vote score 1
    baron muchhumpin: People will always find a way to kill themselves and others stupidly..

    If they are looking, yes. But most people on the road are just trying to get from A to B. Plus there's no need for transportation to be lethally dangerous. I can't imagine in the days before cars there was much danger of a flaming 15-horse pile-up.
    baron muchhumpin 4248 2012-01-26 18:46:01.0 login to vote score 0
    bunnythor: If they are looking, yes. But most people on the road are just trying to get from A to B. Plus there's no need for transportation to be lethally dangerous. I can't imagine in the days before cars there was much danger of a flaming 15-horse pile-up.

    sure but the only practical application for this is in the cities, in isolated systems. You'll still have millions of suburban drivers not in the system coming into the city for work.

    Something like this is cost prohibitive at scale

    shadow blasko 68 2012-01-26 18:53:57.0 login to vote score 0
    fathead jones: How about the car companies figure out how to make an automatic as efficient as a stickshift first. There's no reason my wife's car should jump to 4th at the earliest opportunity when it takes less throttle to maintain that speed in 3rd. I'm not talking about "getting out of the hole" or "negotiating a hill", I'm talking about maintaining 35 mph on the flat.

    /I hate driving that slushbox
    //give me my 40 mpg stickshift any day of the week.


    I have heard very good things about Mclaren/Mercedes infinitely variable transmission.

    They have 500,000 miles on some of the ones they have been testing, and the failure rates are much better than most automatics.

    /Manual till I die, but I like the new tech.
    shadow blasko 68 2012-01-26 18:54:47.0 login to vote score 0
    bunnythor: Really? Having the "privilege" of sitting in rush-hour every morning is worth 350,000 lives a year?

    Yes
    surfnazi 932 2012-01-26 18:55:57.0 login to vote score 0
    shadow blasko: I have heard very good things about Mclaren/Mercedes infinitely variable transmission.

    They have 500,000 miles on some of the ones they have been testing, and the failure rates are much better than most automatics.

    /Manual till I die, but I like the new tech.


    Nissan has had CV
    surfnazi 932 2012-01-26 18:56:15.0 login to vote score 0
    shadow blasko: I have heard very good things about Mclaren/Mercedes infinitely variable transmission.

    They have 500,000 miles on some of the ones they have been testing, and the failure rates are much better than most automatics.

    /Manual till I die, but I like the new tech.


    God dammit...

    Nissan has had CV (continuously variable) transmissions in their cars for a few years but I understand they lose a little performance, and aren't terribly strong. It's cool though to hit the gas and bring it up to 5k and the needle doesn't budge until you let it off.
    shadow blasko 68 2012-01-26 18:57:06.0 login to vote score 0
    surfnazi: Nissan has had CV

    Yeah, its the same tech, but the M&M's are using a different and more adaptive feedback system, where (if I recall correctly) the Nissan system uses fluid pressure feedback.
    fallen from grace 5187 2012-01-26 18:59:33.0 login to vote score 0
    grahams: It becomes all muscle memory. Once you've got it down you hardly think about it. I no longer have any trouble switching the hand i shift with.

    That was one of the bigger surprises to me when I first started driving in South Africa. I've always driven manual, but I really thought it would be difficult to switch from right hand shifting to left hand. Nope. Less than 5 minutes my brain made the switch.
    shadow blasko 68 2012-01-26 19:01:22.0 login to vote score 0
    Although, I really dislike the ratios in my manual at the moment.

    There is no reason for my car to be turning 4000 RPM'S at 65mph, and still be able to accellerate uphill on a 6% grade. Thats just stupid.

    Mazda REALLY could have given us a better transmission for the RX-8, and increased fuel economy by 20%. I don't mind having to downshift on a big hill, and I don't think any other RX-8 driver would mind either, if it meant we could get 30-35MPG instead of 22
    shadow blasko 68 2012-01-26 19:03:54.0 login to vote score 1
    fallen from grace: That was one of the bigger surprises to me when I first started driving in South Africa. I've always driven manual, but I really thought it would be difficult to switch from right hand shifting to left hand. Nope. Less than 5 minutes my brain made the switch.

    Same here. I drove an Austin Mini around Australia when I was there and it only took me a few minutes to get used to shifting with my left hand.
    shadow blasko 68 2012-01-26 19:09:03.0 login to vote score 1
    -Off to the club to celebrate my birthday with the girls
    surfnazi 932 2012-01-26 19:12:11.0 login to vote score 0
    shadow blasko: Although, I really dislike the ratios in my manual at the moment.

    There is no reason for my car to be turning 4000 RPM'S at 65mph, and still be able to accellerate uphill on a 6% grade. Thats just stupid.

    Mazda REALLY could have given us a better transmission for the RX-8, and increased fuel economy by 20%. I don't mind having to downshift on a big hill, and I don't think any other RX-8 driver would mind either, if it meant we could get 30-35MPG instead of 22


    The rotaries are more efficient at higher rpms than a typical pushrod motor, it makes sense to keep them higher.
    surfnazi 932 2012-01-26 19:12:57.0 login to vote score 0
    piston... whatever.
    harrisonfire 756 2012-01-26 19:14:26.0 login to vote score 0
    shadow blasko: -Off to the club to celebrate my birthday with the girls

    Happy Birthdate, dude.
    bunnythor 544 2012-01-26 20:17:32.0 login to vote score 0
    baron muchhumpin: sure but the only practical application for this is in the cities, in isolated systems. You'll still have millions of suburban drivers not in the system coming into the city for work.

    Something like this is cost prohibitive at scale


    Read the article, man. The Google cars have driven about 500,000 miles all over California and Nevada, urban, suburban, and rural. Never a miscommunication. You can't explain that.
    grahams 5 2012-01-26 20:55:22.0 login to vote score 0
    fallen from grace: That was one of the bigger surprises to me when I first started driving in South Africa. I've always driven manual, but I really thought it would be difficult to switch from right hand shifting to left hand. Nope. Less than 5 minutes my brain made the switch.

    Yeah it's really quite strange how easy that is and I don't really have a good explanation.

    There are a few places in the world where they have right hand drive cars and they drive on the right, i'm interested to see how easy that would be.
    grahams 5 2012-01-26 20:57:54.0 login to vote score 0
    baron muchhumpin: sure but the only practical application for this is in the cities, in isolated systems. You'll still have millions of suburban drivers not in the system coming into the city for work.

    Something like this is cost prohibitive at scale


    I wonder how many of these cars we'd need to see an congestion difference. Or perhaps we could just train american drivers on how to do a zipper merge when a lane disappears. It works so so well in europe, but anytime a highway here drops to one lane, traffic has to half it's speed to cope with the one or two assclowns that don't merge in turn.


    xomber 4626 2012-01-26 21:30:15.0 login to vote score 1
    This is long overdue. Very few human beings should be allowed to operate a motor vehicle.

    /I hate driving.
    xomber 4626 2012-01-26 21:30:52.0 login to vote score 0
    bunnythor: Read the article, man. The Google cars have driven about 500,000 miles all over California and Nevada, urban, suburban, and rural. Never a miscommunication. You can't explain that.

    Tide goes in, tide goes out.
    xomber 4626 2012-01-26 21:32:37.0 login to vote score 0
    throwingknife: I would have liked a robot driving me home tonight, despite being quite sober, not drink at all. It was dark and raining hard, so lane markers were invisible. Pooling and puddling on the road even made potholes disappear.

    On the other hand, I wonder if the robot cars are able to understand that when you see one deer, there may be others. When you're on a sleepy residential street and you see a small child with a ball off the left side of the road, there might just be another child invisible behind the parked car on the right you're about to pass. (In my 25 MPH neighborhood, I slow down WAY below that when I see kids. I actually had a kid dart out from behind a parked car. I'm pleased to say I was able to stop OK.)


    Substitute "robots" for people and you have our current situation.

    gradivus 3607 2012-01-26 21:39:40.0 login to vote score 0
    xomber: Substitute "robots" for people and you have our current situation.

    I will never trust a robot.
    grahams 5 2012-01-26 21:45:04.0 login to vote score 0
    throwingknife: On the other hand, I wonder if the robot cars are able to understand that when you see one deer, there may be others.

    I certainly don't see why not, that sort of learning is relatively easy for a computer to pick up. Far easier than what's already been accomplished.

    Plus you've got to figure that the computer is looking in all directions at once, it's much more likely to spot a child by the side of the road before the driver would. And it can react quicker.
    gradivus 3607 2012-01-26 21:47:04.0 login to vote score 0
    grahams: I certainly don't see why not, that sort of learning is relatively easy for a computer to pick up. Far easier than what's already been accomplished.

    Plus you've got to figure that the computer is looking in all directions at once, it's much more likely to spot a child by the side of the road before the driver would. And it can react quicker.


    I challenge it!
    grahams 5 2012-01-26 21:49:13.0 login to vote score 0
    gradivus: I challenge it!

    When i was looking earlier, there's a video where a journalist jumps out in front and it seems to react pretty quickly
    gradivus 3607 2012-01-26 21:55:15.0 login to vote score 0
    grahams: When i was looking earlier, there's a video where a journalist jumps out in front and it seems to react pretty quickly

    I do 120+ miles of city driving a day. Can this thing use a gut feeling that some idiot is going to do something stupid and avoid an accident? Granted most stupid people should use the robot, but I will opt out(except on road trips).
    xomber 4626 2012-01-27 01:29:18.0 login to vote score 0
    gradivus: I will never trust a robot.

    What do you think we are? We are robots.
    baron muchhumpin 4248 2012-01-27 03:08:32.0 login to vote score 0
    bunnythor: Read the article, man. The Google cars have driven about 500,000 miles all over California and Nevada, urban, suburban, and rural. Never a miscommunication. You can't explain that.

    I read the story.. like 3 years ago

    If infrastructure changes are needed: IE designated roads, forget it

    If you took the left lane on highways and designated them for these cars i'd do it in a second, but only if human driven cars were shot with HellFire missiles for violating the rules and coming into the CPU lane

    baron muchhumpin 4248 2012-01-27 03:09:45.0 login to vote score 0
    gradivus: I will never trust a robotcomputer controlled system.

    you do every day

    shadow blasko 68 2012-01-27 05:02:43.0 login to vote score 0
    Well... That was embarrassing.
    fathead jones 8080 2012-01-27 08:49:26.0 login to vote score 0
    grahams: I wonder how many of these cars we'd need to see an congestion difference. Or perhaps we could just train american drivers on how to do a zipper merge when a lane disappears. It works so so well in europe, but anytime a highway here drops to one lane, traffic has to half it's speed to cope with the one or two assclowns that don't merge in turn.

    It works well in Europe because drivers aren't afraid of tailgating.

    When you have a hard-and-fast following distance expectation, the zipper fails most gloriously. Merging down to one lane at speed is the best method.

    Even using fluid models (and traffic isn't fluid, it's more like billiard balls), it's faster to pour all the fluid to one side than it is to push it down the middle into a restriction.

    The only time zipper works is when flow is restricted by a bottleneck beforehand, e.g., a traffic light. If you don't believe me, look at when bottlenecks happen, when people try to zipper. You have traffic that has to go from highway speed to half of highway speed and back to highway speed. Merging at speed doesn't require the braking and acceleration of the zipper.

    /the zipper is a progressive lie
    harrisonfire 756 2012-01-27 09:06:08.0 login to vote score 0
    xomber: What do you think we are? We are robots.

    Indeed!


    bunnythor 544 2012-01-27 15:51:52.0 login to vote score 0
    baron muchhumpin: I read the story.. like 3 years ago

    If infrastructure changes are needed: IE designated roads, forget it


    Yeah, the whole field has revolutionized in 3 years. These are autonomous cars driving in real traffic with stupid human drivers doing their typical dumbassery. No need for special infrastructure or lanes or signal broadcasters or any of that. All the tech is in each individual car. It's a whole new ballgame.
    If you logged in, you could post here.