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  • A septic spontaneous abortion is not an elective procedure you disgusting animals. FACTS and LINKS as always you fools.



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  • Tagged with : gahbrone meltdown , he drives a sausage , he drives an abortion , liquid-plumr milkshake , spontaneous murder , termarter

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    Comments 101 through 222 of 222 shown. Page 1 2
    bake 2096 2012-02-16 13:52:45.0 login to vote score 0
    gahbrone: You realize lying doesn't change anything.

    She had a septic spontaneous abortion. To imply that either her or her husband are hypocrites because of this is to say that she chose to have her baby die in utero. I wish for you all the physical and emotional pain you mock her for that she had no choice but to endure.


    and i wish for them all the unwanted babies left in dumpsters, i am sure they will love each and every one of them as soon as they wipe the 6 day old spaghetti sauce off them











    fuck, that wasn't spaghetti sauce

    sabine 745 2012-02-16 13:53:40.0 login to vote score 2
    gahbrone: all the physical and emotional pain you mock her for that she had no choice but to endure.

    One wonders if her pain would have been even greater had she not the peace of mind of knowing that intentionally terminating the pregnancy was an option.
    bake 2096 2012-02-16 13:54:41.0 login to vote score 1
    would santorum outlaw this thread...cuz its a fucking abortion!!!!eleventy!!!11!!!
    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 13:57:48.0 login to vote score 0
    sabine: One wonders if her pain would have been even greater had she not the peace of mind of knowing that intentionally terminating the pregnancy was an option.

    Forgetting the fact that this wasn't even an issue for her case as she never wanted an electie abortions for any reason, are you really suggesting that elective abortions are happy things for women?

    polydactylkatze 641 2012-02-16 13:58:13.0 login to vote score 2
    If God is against abortion, why does he end half of all pregnancies that way?
    grahams 5 2012-02-16 13:59:16.0 login to vote score 4
    gahbrone: You realize lying doesn't change anything.

    She had a septic spontaneous abortion.


    Do i need to draw you a venn diagram?
    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 13:59:53.0 login to vote score 0
    polydactylkatze: If God is against abortion, why does he end half of all pregnancies that way?


    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 14:00:22.0 login to vote score 0
    grahams: Do i need to draw you a venn diagram?

    Do I need to teach you to read?
    burntman 1528 2012-02-16 14:01:25.0 login to vote score 9
    gahbrone: To imply that either her or her husband are hypocrites

    This is what Rick Santorum said “if that had to be the call, we would have induced labor if we had to,”

    This is what Karen Santorum said “If the physician came to me and said if we don’t deliver your baby in one hour you will be dead, yeah, I would have to do it, she said. “But for me, it was at the very end. I would never make a decision like that until all other means had been thoroughly exhausted.”

    Rick Santorum does not want anybody else to have that option, or to be able to 'make that call'

    "Santorum dismissed exceptions other senators wanted to carve out to protect the life and health of mothers, calling such exceptions “phony"

    That is hypocrisy.
    polydactylkatze 641 2012-02-16 14:01:27.0 login to vote score 0
    gahbrone:

    So, no answer then?
    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 14:02:13.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman: "

    That is hypocrisy.

    She had no induction of labor. She went into spontaneous labor and have birth to a dead baby.

    I'm finished with you.
    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 14:02:38.0 login to vote score 0
    polydactylkatze: So, no answer then?

    That is all the answer you deserve for such a meaningless and stupid comment.
    polydactylkatze 641 2012-02-16 14:03:34.0 login to vote score 2
    gahbrone: That is all the answer you deserve for such a meaningless and stupid comment.

    It's not meaningless or stupid. But you are dense.
    sabine 745 2012-02-16 14:04:10.0 login to vote score 5
    gahbrone: she never wanted an electie abortions for any reason

    Yes she did, the reason being "not dying". Quotes both by both her and her husband confirming this litter this thread.
    polydactylkatze 641 2012-02-16 14:04:38.0 login to vote score 2
    bake: and i wish for them all the unwanted babies left in dumpsters, i am sure they will love each and every one of them as soon as they wipe the 6 day old spaghetti sauce off them











    fuck, that wasn't spaghetti sauce


    Even my abortion laughed at this comment.
    burntman 1528 2012-02-16 14:05:24.0 login to vote score 8
    gahbrone: That is hypocrisy.

    She had no induction of labor. She went into spontaneous labor and have birth to a dead baby.

    I'm finished with you.


    I never said she induced labour. What both her and her hasband did say is that they would have induced labour. They said that very explicitly.

    Her husband also said that he would not accept that for other people.

    That is hypocrisy.

    But yeah, keep pretending that's not what he said.
    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 14:08:11.0 login to vote score 0
    Furtheromre, he supports exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother.

    You people literally make up lies on top of lies.

    See the section on Rape, incest, life of the mother

    http://www.issues2000.org/2012/Rick_Santorum_Abrtion.htm
    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 14:09:17.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman:
    That is hypocrisy.



    STOP FUCKING LYING you animal.

    1. She had no induction of labor. She went into spontaneous labor and have birth to a dead baby.

    2. Santorum support exceptions for life of the mother... no matter that this fact has NOTHING to do with this case at all since this was a spontaneous abortion
    polydactylkatze 641 2012-02-16 14:10:27.0 login to vote score 3
    GOD is my abortionist.

    I'm totally getting that made into a bumper sticker.
    sabine 745 2012-02-16 14:10:39.0 login to vote score 2
    gahbrone: Furtheromre, he supports exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother.

    You referring to the 2006 quote which is contradicted by the 2011 one where he laments the fact that a rapist "could not be subject to the death penalty, yet the child conceived as a result of that rape could be"?
    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 14:11:37.0 login to vote score 0
    sabine: You referring to the 2006 quote which is contradicted by the 2011 one where he laments the fact that a rapist "could not be subject to the death penalty, yet the child conceived as a result of that rape could be"?

    His wife wasn't raped.

    1. She had no induction of labor. She went into spontaneous labor and have birth to a dead baby.

    2. Santorum support exceptions for life of the mother... no matter that this fact has NOTHING to do with this case at all since this was a spontaneous abortion

    muninsfire 189 2012-02-16 14:12:36.0 login to vote score 1
    polydactylkatze: GOD is my abortionist.

    I'm totally getting that made into a bumper sticker.


    That would be pretty fun...
    bake 2096 2012-02-16 14:13:20.0 login to vote score 2
    gahbrone: STOP FUCKING LYING you animal.



    are you fauna?

    seriously, for someone trying to convince the internet you are in med school, you would think you would understand basic life forms
    bake 2096 2012-02-16 14:14:00.0 login to vote score 3
    gahbrone: His wife wasn't raped.

    1. She had no induction of labor. She went into spontaneous labor and have birth to a dead baby.

    2. Santorum support exceptions for life of the mother... no matter that this fact has NOTHING to do with this case at all since this was a spontaneous abortion


    dude, take off the blindfold, you are just blindly swinging now
    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 14:15:09.0 login to vote score 0
    bake: dude, take off the blindfold, you are just blindly swinging now

    Facts suck for you.

    You'll have to deal with that.


    polydactylkatze 641 2012-02-16 14:15:27.0 login to vote score 1
    muninsfire: That would be pretty fun...

    It would have to go on a disposable car. You know how violent and destructive people of faith can get when their respective religions of peace are challenged.
    bake 2096 2012-02-16 14:15:58.0 login to vote score 1
    gahbrone: Facts suck for you.

    You'll have to deal with that.


    they only suck for me because i do not ignore them like you
    sabine 745 2012-02-16 14:16:48.0 login to vote score 4
    gahbrone: His wife wasn't raped

    Hey, you're the one that said he supports a rape exception. I think his position on exceptions is inconsistent.

    gahbrone: Santorum support exceptions for life of the mother

    As I mentioned upthread, if a doctor has to swear that the woman would definitely die under fear of criminal reprisal if somebody else disagrees, that's not a tenable state of affairs.

    gahbrone: this fact has NOTHING to do with this case at all since this was a spontaneous abortion

    You've got an uphill battle here, as you're arguing with both Karen and Rick.
    osirisothedead 1858 2012-02-16 14:17:45.0 login to vote score 3
    gahbrone: STOP FUCKING LYING you animal.

    He isn't. Try reading and actually absorbing what he typed. Put the brakes on that plaid for a second.
    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 14:17:59.0 login to vote score 0
    sabine: Hey, you're the one that said he supports a rape exception.

    HE supports an exception to life of the mother, which you stated he did not.

    1. She had no induction of labor. She went into spontaneous labor and have birth to a dead baby.

    2. Santorum support exceptions for life of the mother... no matter that this fact has NOTHING to do with this case at all since this was a spontaneous abortion
    quinblake 1476 2012-02-16 14:18:56.0 login to vote score 3
    lol at everyone trying to convince gahbrone with facts. He submitted this thread as masturbation material.
    osirisothedead 1858 2012-02-16 14:20:07.0 login to vote score 3
    burntman and bake are animals!

    RAWR!
    grahams 5 2012-02-16 14:20:39.0 login to vote score 3
    I just found this method in some code I'm working on


    ///
    /// removes annoying message boxes for when we are closing the containing form. Leaves the grid unstable for future use.
    ///
    public void ForeverAbort()
    {
    m_aborting = true;
    }

    grotfabrieken rubbishhausen 561 2012-02-16 14:20:41.0 login to vote score 1
    quinblake: lol at everyone trying to convince gahbrone with facts. He submitted this thread as masturbation material.

    And he's been going for almost 24 hours. Good thing he's got all these lib tears for lube.
    burntman 1528 2012-02-16 14:20:45.0 login to vote score 2
    gahbrone: Furtheromre, he supports exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother.

    You people literally make up lies on top of lies.

    See the section on Rape, incest, life of the mother

    http://www.issues2000.org/2012/Rick_Santorum_Abrtion.htm


    funny. I get

    "The page cannot be found"

    But that's ok. cos look:

    from foxnews insider (with a video)

    Rick Santorum on Abortion: There Are No Exceptions for Rape and Incest

    So yeah, lie some more. You do realise everyone else has google as well don't you?


    bake 2096 2012-02-16 14:21:01.0 login to vote score 2
    gahbrone: HE supports an exception to life of the mother, which you stated he did not.

    1. She had no induction of labor. She went into spontaneous labor and have birth to a dead baby.

    2. Santorum support exceptions for life of the mother... no matter that this fact has NOTHING to do with this case at all since this was a spontaneous abortion


    are you're fingers sore and bloody from banging on the keyboard...i bet they look like the abortion santorums wife had



    sabine 745 2012-02-16 14:21:14.0 login to vote score 0
    gahbrone: HE supports an exception to life of the mother, which you stated he did not.

    Please point out where I said that.
    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 14:21:21.0 login to vote score 0
    quinblake: lol at everyone trying to convince gahbrone with facts. He submitted this thread as masturbation material.

    You have no facts, you just have lies.

    You make the claim that she had an elective abortion. She did not.

    You make the claim that he opposed life of the mother exception. He does not.


    bake 2096 2012-02-16 14:21:36.0 login to vote score 0
    osirisothedead: burntman and bake are animals!

    RAWR!


    jez call me tiger ;)
    sabine 745 2012-02-16 14:22:10.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman: "The page cannot be found"

    Fix the misspelling of "abortion" and it should work.
    quinblake 1476 2012-02-16 14:22:36.0 login to vote score 2
    gahbrone: You have no facts, you just have lies.

    You make the claim that she had an elective abortion. She did not.

    You make the claim that he opposed life of the mother exception. He does not.


    Wrong again you weirdo, I haven't made any claims.
    grahams 5 2012-02-16 14:23:04.0 login to vote score 2
    gahbrone: You have no facts, you just have lies.

    You make the claim that she had an elective abortion. She did not.


    Nobody is making that claim, instead most of this thread seems to be around claiming & sourcing

    1) she had a spontaneous abortion
    2) both she and her husband have said they would have elected to have an abortion if her life was in danger
    burntman 1528 2012-02-16 14:23:36.0 login to vote score 1
    gahbrone: STOP FUCKING LYING you animal.

    1. She had no induction of labor. She went into spontaneous labor and have birth to a dead baby.

    2. Santorum support exceptions for life of the mother... no matter that this fact has NOTHING to do with this case at all since this was a spontaneous abortion


    that's cute.

    1. He said he would have induced labour.
    2. He said that other people should not have that choice.

    that is hypocrisy.
    osirisothedead 1858 2012-02-16 14:23:48.0 login to vote score 2
    grahams: I just found this method in some code I'm working on


    ///
    /// removes annoying message boxes for when we are closing the containing form. Leaves the grid unstable for future use.
    ///
    public void ForeverAbort()
    {
    m_aborting = true;
    }


    I hope it has a "catch (HissyFit gahbrone)" in there someplace.

    bake 2096 2012-02-16 14:23:54.0 login to vote score 1
    quinblake: Wrong again you weirdo, I haven't made any claims.

    i love the word weirdo

    polydactylkatze 641 2012-02-16 14:24:01.0 login to vote score 4
    quinblake: lol at everyone trying to convince gahbrone with facts. He submitted this thread as masturbation material.

    Maybe if enough people get in on this dutch rudder we can get him to finish and pass out.
    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 14:25:30.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman: funny. I get

    "The page cannot be found"


    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.issues2000.org%2F2012%2FRick_Santorum_Abrtion.htm+



    bake 2096 2012-02-16 14:25:31.0 login to vote score 2
    polydactylkatze: Maybe if enough people get in on this dutch rudder we can get him to finish and pass out.

    but think of all the mini abortions he would be performing when he shoots allover his chest
    osirisothedead 1858 2012-02-16 14:27:04.0 login to vote score 2
    bake: but think of all the mini abortions he would be performing when he shoots allover his chest

    You think he's that virile? Tis probably but a mere dribble.
    sabine 745 2012-02-16 14:27:08.0 login to vote score 2
    gahbrone: http://lmgtfy.com

    Yeah, or you could just learn to spell and/or proofread.
    quinblake 1476 2012-02-16 14:29:27.0 login to vote score 5
    bake: i love the word weirdo

    "sick animal" was already taken.
    osirisothedead 1858 2012-02-16 14:29:49.0 login to vote score 2
    sabine: Yeah, or you could just learn to spell and/or proofread.

    Why should he? He has FACTS and (broken) LINKS. All you have are criticisms of typos and inconvenient rebuttals!
    quinblake 1476 2012-02-16 14:31:36.0 login to vote score 2
    So gahbrone lost this discussion but at least he still got off.
    burntman 1528 2012-02-16 14:31:59.0 login to vote score 2
    gahbrone: Furtheromre, he supports exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother.

    You people literally make up lies on top of lies.

    See the section on Rape, incest, life of the mother

    http://www.issues2000.org/2012/Rick_Santorum_Abrtion.htm


    lol, You dishonest lying shit.

    That particular quote comes from 2006.

    For abortion due to rape and incest, from that same page you fucking linked to and with a date of 2011:

    Q: In June, you said, "I believe that any doctor who performs an abortion should be criminally charged for doing so." You would allow no exceptions for cases of rape and incest?

    SANTORUM: You know, the US Supreme Court on a recent case said that a man who committed rape could not be killed, could not be subject to the death penalty, yet the child conceived as a result of that rape could be. That to me sounds like a country that doesn't have its morals correct. That child did nothing wrong. That child is an innocent victim. To be victimized twice would be a horrible thing. It is an innocent human life. It is genetically human from the moment of conception. And it is a human life. And we in America should be big enough to try to surround ourselves and help women in those terrible situations who've been traumatized already. To put them through another trauma of an abortion I think is too much to ask. And so I would absolutely stand and say that one violence is enough.


    osirisothedead 1858 2012-02-16 14:32:08.0 login to vote score 1
    quinblake: So gahbrone lost this discussion but at least he still got off.

    He'll come back in a few hours, claim victory and hope nobody notices.
    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 14:33:03.0 login to vote score 0
    quinblake: So gahbrone lost this discussion but at least he still got off.

    I'm sorry lost what?

    His wife had a spontaneous septic abortion. Where she didn't even induce labor and have birth to a dead baby.

    Santorum supports a life of the mother exception, which has no bearing in this case anyway, since she had a spontaneous abortion of a dead baby.
    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 14:33:39.0 login to vote score 0
    And now you say his wife was raped.

    amazing.
    osirisothedead 1858 2012-02-16 14:34:39.0 login to vote score 2
    gahbrone: And now you say his wife was raped.

    amazing.


    Well, would you voluntarily have sex with that? Ew.
    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 14:35:55.0 login to vote score 0
    osirisothedead: Ew.



    polydactylkatze 641 2012-02-16 14:37:34.0 login to vote score 2
    Mrs. Santorum was raped by God's abortion.
    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 14:38:10.0 login to vote score 1
    polydactylkatze: Mrs. Santorum was raped by God's abortion.

    FINALLY, you get it. FINA-FUCKING-LY.
    polydactylkatze 641 2012-02-16 14:39:36.0 login to vote score 0
    gahbrone: FINALLY, you get it. FINA-FUCKING-LY.

    I don't care what anyone says, in the end you're a good sport.
    osirisothedead 1858 2012-02-16 14:39:40.0 login to vote score 2
    gahbrone: FINALLY, you get it. FINA-FUCKING-LY.

    So Santorum is still wrong. If God is totally OK with randomly giving women abortions, what business does Rick have saying otherwise?
    sabine 745 2012-02-16 14:39:51.0 login to vote score 0
    gahbrone: I'm sorry lost what?

    So, if I understand you correctly, you're telling us that this is just the place for a Snark?
    burntman 1528 2012-02-16 14:39:58.0 login to vote score 2
    gahbrone: I'm sorry lost what?

    His wife had a spontaneous septic abortion. Where she didn't even induce labor and have birth to a dead baby.

    Santorum supports a life of the mother exception, which has no bearing in this case anyway, since she had a spontaneous abortion of a dead baby.


    no. He specifically stated that he would have chosen to induce labour to save his wife. His wife specifically stated that she would have opted for induced labour.

    He specifically says abortions should not be allowed even in the case of a mother life.

    "Santorum dismissed exceptions other senators wanted to carve out to protect the life and health of mothers, calling such exceptions “phony"

    What about this are you having problems understanding?
    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 14:41:09.0 login to vote score 1
    polydactylkatze: I don't care what anyone says, in the end you're a good sport.

    A few people on here are WAYYYY THE fuck balls too serious. You are one of the good ones, among others.
    polydactylkatze 641 2012-02-16 14:42:27.0 login to vote score 0
    gahbrone: A few people on here are WAYYYY THE fuck balls too serious. You are one of the good ones, among others.

    *sibfist*
    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 14:42:50.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman: n


    I posted a source to prove that Santorum supports life of the other exception. even though that has NO bearing to this case as his own wife had a spontaneous septic abortion of an already dead baby.

    Enough of you.
    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 14:43:01.0 login to vote score 0
    *of the mother
    osirisothedead 1858 2012-02-16 14:43:20.0 login to vote score 5
    gahbrone: A few people on here are WAYYYY THE fuck balls too serious. You are one of the good ones, among others.

    Yeah, I see a few of those. The ones who start their comments with "You are a disgusting vile monster", and "STOP FUCKING LYING you animal", for example.
    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 14:43:36.0 login to vote score 1
    polydactylkatze: *sibfist*


    let's dock.

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=docking
    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 14:44:06.0 login to vote score 0
    osirisothedead: Yeah, I see a few of those. The ones who start their comments with "You are a disgusting vile monster", and "STOP FUCKING LYING you animal", for example.



    burntman 1528 2012-02-16 14:44:54.0 login to vote score 3
    gahbrone: I posted a source to prove that Santorum supports life of the other exception. even though that has NO bearing to this case as his own wife had a spontaneous septic abortion of an already dead baby.

    Enough of you.


    You posted a quote from 2006 when the same source has a quote from 2011 saying exactly the opposite.

    You are a buffoon.
    quinblake 1476 2012-02-16 14:45:02.0 login to vote score 2
    The loser of an argument always posts the serious business meme.
    osirisothedead 1858 2012-02-16 14:45:08.0 login to vote score 1
    gahbrone: let's dock.

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=docking


    Meh. It's not all it's cracked up to be.
    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 14:46:27.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman: You posted a quote from 2006 when the same source has a quote from 2011 saying exactly the opposite.

    You are a buffoon.


    Continue to lie.

    http://www.issues2000.org/2012/Rick_Santorum_Abortion.htm
    sabine 745 2012-02-16 14:47:12.0 login to vote score 2
    gahbrone: A few people on here are WAYYYY THE fuck balls too serious.

    Sorry, but I have a tough time finding much humor in women dying and having serious health problems because of politicians interfering in their medical decisions.
    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 14:47:48.0 login to vote score 0
    sabine: Sorry, but I have a tough time finding much humor in women dying and having serious health problems because of politicians interfering in their medical decisions.

    sorry that you live in a country where abortion is illegal.
    little hands of concrete 1804 2012-02-16 14:47:48.0 login to vote score 0
    If gahbrone is correct, it appears Santorum is pro-choice.
    spongegirl circleskirt 382 2012-02-16 14:51:05.0 login to vote score 1

    burntman 1528 2012-02-16 14:51:08.0 login to vote score 4
    gahbrone: Continue to lie.

    http://www.issues2000.org/2012/Rick_Santorum_Abortion.htm


    SANTORUM: It is, there’s no question it’s the taking of a life. But it is an attempt for me to try to see if we can find common ground to actually make progress in limiting the other abortions. So yes, that’s what I would do.
    Source: PA 2006 Senate Debate, Tim Russert moderator , Sep 3, 2006

    From that same page

    Q: In June, you said, "I believe that any doctor who performs an abortion should be criminally charged for doing so." You would allow no exceptions for cases of rape and incest?

    SANTORUM: "...And so I would absolutely stand and say that one violence is enough.
    Source: Iowa Straw Poll 2011 GOP debate in Ames Iowa , Aug 11, 2011

    So yeah, good work there Shirley, You definitely deserve a prize.
    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 14:51:54.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman:

    And we are talking about a life of the mother exception.

    gahbrone: Continue to lie.

    http://www.issues2000.org/2012/Rick_Santorum_Abortion.htm



    gahbrone 481 2012-02-16 14:59:16.0 login to vote score 0
    So first you argue that his wife had an elective abortion. Even though she had a spontaneous septic abortion and almost died b/c she didn't want an elective abortion.

    Then you say he is a hypocrite for thinking about choosing to have induced abortion, even though she went into spontaneous labor, refused induction of labor in this case and he supports a life of the mother exception anyway.

    And how you say he is a hypocrite b/c he doesn't support a rape exception, so you are saying his wife was raped and had an elective abortion... which as above are about 15 levels of wrong.

    I'm heading to dinner, enjoy your crow.

    sabine 745 2012-02-16 15:00:47.0 login to vote score 2
    osirisothedead: He'll come back in a few hours, claim victory and hope nobody notices.
    gahbrone: I'm heading to dinner, enjoy your crow.
    polydactylkatze 641 2012-02-16 15:03:01.0 login to vote score 3
    gahbrone: let's dock.

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=docking


    Okay, but I think we're going to need to borrow a foreskin.
    burntman 1528 2012-02-16 15:05:33.0 login to vote score 2
    gahbrone: And we are talking about a life of the mother exception.

    oh sure. In that case your quote is still from 2006.

    Here's what santorum said in 2011,

    SANTORUM: When I was leading the charge on partial birth abortion, several members came forward and said, “Why don’t we just ban all abortions?” Tom Daschle was one of them, if you remember. And Susan Collins, and others. They wanted a health exception, which of course is a phony exception which would make the ban ineffective.


    /it has video, since you have apparently have the reading comprehension abilities of a lobotomised ape.
    burntman 1528 2012-02-16 15:07:46.0 login to vote score 2
    gahbrone: Then you say he is a hypocrite for thinking about choosing to have induced abortion

    Yes, because he specifically does not want other people to be able to think about choosing an induced abortion.
    osirisothedead 1858 2012-02-16 15:08:48.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman: /it has video, since you have apparently have the reading comprehension abilities of a lobotomised ape.



    Is not amused.
    sabine 745 2012-02-16 15:19:36.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman: They wanted a health exception

    That's not the same thing as "life of the mother". PABA (the bill he's talking about) has an exception when the mother's life is in danger. At the time it was enacted, there was a mishmash of state regulations, a few of which had broader exemptions to protect the health of the mother, not limited to life-threatening conditions. (All state bans had "life of the mother" exceptions.)

    That's the sort of exception that was being proposed as an amendment, and Santorum resisted. It wasn't included, and that was the grounds on which PABA was originally ruled unconstitutional by the district and circuit courts.

    It eventually got to the Supreme Court, and a sharply divided 5-4 ruling in Gonzales v. Carhart overturned the lower court rulings and declared PABA constitutional even without a health exception.
    bonus_eruptus 967 2012-02-16 15:31:06.0 login to vote score 0
    bake: and i wish for them all the unwanted babies left in dumpsters, i am sure they will love each and every one of them as soon as they wipe the 6 day old spaghetti sauce off them











    fuck, that wasn't spaghetti sauce


    Tasted like it.
    burntman 1528 2012-02-16 15:34:00.0 login to vote score 0
    sabine: That's not the same thing as "life of the mother". PABA (the bill he's talking about) has an exception when the mother's life is in danger. At the time it was enacted, there was a mishmash of state regulations, a few of which had broader exemptions to protect the health of the mother, not limited to life-threatening conditions. (All state bans had "life of the mother" exceptions.)

    That's the sort of exception that was being proposed as an amendment, and Santorum resisted. It wasn't included, and that was the grounds on which PABA was originally ruled unconstitutional by the district and circuit courts.

    It eventually got to the Supreme Court, and a sharply divided 5-4 ruling in Gonzales v. Carhart overturned the lower court rulings and declared PABA constitutional even without a health exception.


    I would think "mothers health" encompasses "life of mother".

    Although there are any number of serious medical emergencies that might require a woman to terminate a pregnancy in her third trimester to protect her own health, Santorum and his allies “said that ‘health’ is nothing but a loophole for women who would abort a pregnancy to fit into a prom dress.”


    sabine 745 2012-02-16 15:44:20.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman: I would think "mothers health" encompasses "life of mother".

    Yeah, but not the other way around.
    burntman 1528 2012-02-16 15:49:38.0 login to vote score 0
    sabine: Yeah, but not the other way around.

    I'm not following. My understanding is that with the PABA Santorum argued against an exception for the "life of mother", these days he seems to have upped his game even further, now rejecting even the exceptions in the Hyde amendment. Am I missing something?
    sabine 745 2012-02-16 15:53:45.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman: I'm not following.

    "Life of mother" is a more narrow exception than "health of mother". Santorum's OK with abortions when life is threatened, but not with allowing doctors the broader discretion to define "preservation of health of the mother" (the phrase used in Roe v. Wade to tell states they could not ban all post-viability abortions).
    pajamas 7950 2012-02-16 15:59:27.0 login to vote score 3
    burntman: I'm not following. My understanding is that with the PABA Santorum argued against an exception for the "life of mother", these days he seems to have upped his game even further, now rejecting even the exceptions in the Hyde amendment. Am I missing something?

    Santorum seems to belong to the camp with an extremely narrow interpretation of "life of the mother" that covers issues like ectopic pregnancy where the mother's life will be forfeit completely if the child is delivered. This camp believes that the "health of the mother" exceptions outline in Doe v. Bolton cover too much territory, especially since they refer to mental and emotional health as well.
    burntman 1528 2012-02-16 16:15:07.0 login to vote score 0
    sabine: Santorum's OK with abortions when life is threatened

    I'm not seeing that in his recent positions. The only thing I can see is that he wouldn't send the mother to jail but rather the doctor. I don't see anything recent where he says abortions are ok once the the mothers life is threatened. Rather what I do see is him actively trying to overturn the very laws that would have allowed the doctors to induce labour if his wife had not spontaneously aborted.

    wushupork 81 2012-02-16 16:19:58.0 login to vote score 2
    spongegirl circleskirt:


    sabine 745 2012-02-16 16:24:27.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman: I don't see anything recent where he says abortions are ok once the the mothers life is threatened.

    I haven't seen him say they aren't OK, and frankly I don't think I've heard anybody go that far. The rollback of Roe v. Wade that PABA represented went out of its way to divorce "life" from "health", and I think it's reasonable to assign Santorum to that position, as he was PABA's originator.
    burntman 1528 2012-02-16 16:25:17.0 login to vote score 0
    sabine: "Life of mother" is a more narrow exception than "health of mother". Santorum's OK with abortions when life is threatened, but not with allowing doctors the broader discretion to define "preservation of health of the mother" (the phrase used in Roe v. Wade to tell states they could not ban all post-viability abortions).

    I've got this:

    Candidate Guide: Where Does Rick Santorum Stand? (bolding mine)

    Santorum has campaigned for support from social conservatives by emphasizing his opposition to abortion. He supports a blanket ban on abortion without exceptions for rape or incest, he has said in public statements.

    “I believe that life begins at conception and that life should be guaranteed under the Constitution,” Santorum said when asked about such exceptions during a June appearance on NBC’s Meet the Press. Santorum also said he would support criminal prosecution of physicians who perform abortions.

    During his failed reelection campaign against Sen. Robert Casey, D-Pa., in 2006, Santorum expressed support for allowing abortions in cases of rape and incest or to protect the life of the mother.

    In another Meet the Press appearance Sunday, Santorum explained that he supported compromise positions on abortion in hopes of moving the country toward a fuller ban. “Today I would support laws that would provide for those exceptions; but I’m not for them,” he said.

    sabine 745 2012-02-16 16:32:52.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman: I've got this

    That's not airtight, especially when dealing with gahbrone. It's certainly conceivable that the final "them" meant only rape and incest (especially given the first bit you bolded). He's certainly been given several opportunities to declare his opposition to abortions even when the mother's life is endangered, and I have no doubt that had he ever done so, it would have been trumpeted from the rooftops (probably by both sides).
    burntman 1528 2012-02-16 17:27:25.0 login to vote score 1
    sabine: That's not airtight, especially when dealing with gahbrone. It's certainly conceivable that the final "them" meant only rape and incest (especially given the first bit you bolded). He's certainly been given several opportunities to declare his opposition to abortions even when the mother's life is endangered, and I have no doubt that had he ever done so, it would have been trumpeted from the rooftops (probably by both sides).

    As concerns the PABA. The exception for the mothers life came later and as a compromise to Barbara Boxters call for a health exemption.

    This is what Rick Santorum said as regards PABA:

    And on debating the partial-birth abortion ban in 1996, Santorum said: “Mr. President, I just need to restate, we have quoted physician after physician, obstetrician after obstetrician, pro-life, pro-choice, people who have performed abortions—this is not Rick Santorum or James Inhofe or Mike DeWine or Bob Smith—these are physicians, obstetricians, who are saying that this procedure is never, never, never medically necessary to save the health or life of the mother. Never. Never.”


    bunnythor 544 2012-02-16 17:45:17.0 login to vote score 1
    quinblake: lol at everyone trying to convince gahbrone with facts. He submitted this thread as masturbation material.

    Arguing with gahbrone is exactly as stupid as arguing with flashlv. In either case it is a better use of your time to make and drink a large Liquid-Plumr milkshake, swaddle yourself in barbed wire, and then throw yourself down the stairs of the Magician's Pyramid in Uxmal.





    sabine 745 2012-02-16 20:39:02.0 login to vote score 1
    burntman: this procedure is never, never, never medically necessary to save the health or life of the mother

    That's a pretty strong quote, but I still see a couple of loopholes that were I gahbrone I would attempt to exploit. First, if the procedure is really never medically necessary to save the life of the mother, then an exception for that case would be pointless. Secondly, the specific procedure being addressed by PABA (arguably for emotional reasons) is D&X, where the fetus is extracted intact. D&E is another option for late-term abortions, albeit one that carries greater risk to health, especially future fertility. If we hear emphasis on "this" in "this procedure", one could conceivably argue that he's talking about D&X as contrasted with D&E.
    burntman 1528 2012-02-16 21:11:37.0 login to vote score 1
    sabine: First, if the procedure is really never medically necessary to save the life of the mother, then an exception for that case would be pointless.

    That is exactly what Santorum was trying to argue.

    Another quote on the same PABA:

    “This isn’t taught in any medical school. It isn’t done in any hospital. It isn’t done by any obstetrician. This is a rogue procedure for the convenience and economic benefit of abortionists and abortion clinics. Of course, it is not medically necessary. It is not even medically recognized.”


    sabine: one could conceivably argue that he's talking about D&X as contrasted with D&E.

    The argument is whether he is being a hypocrite in trying to ban a procedure which both him and his wife stated they were willing to perform in order to save her life.

    He termed it a "medically induced miscarriage". Now Gahbrone would like you to believe that the fetus was dead.

    gahbrone: she went into spontaneous labor and gave birth to a dead baby

    That is not true. In fact the baby lived for another two hours. That's an intact foetus which fits the the federal statute which defines "partial-birth abortion" as any abortion in which the fetus is extracted "past the navel [of the fetus]... outside the body of the mother,"

    So the only question is whether medically inducing the delivery of a living non-viable foetus counts as abortion.

    And if I'm not mistaken Rick Santorum has indeed spoken on abortifacients as well. In fact that's his rationale for not allowing certain forms of birth control.
    elton jon benet 3546 2012-02-16 21:22:41.0 login to vote score 0
    I'd like to know opinions on if a baby is born with severe defects, if anything and everything should be done to keep it alive?
    burntman 1528 2012-02-16 21:27:07.0 login to vote score 0
    elton jon benet: I'd like to know opinions on if a baby is born with severe defects, if anything and everything should be done to keep it alive?

    our personal opinions or Rick Santorums?
    sabine 745 2012-02-16 22:39:38.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman: That is exactly what Santorum was trying to argue.

    Right, but it's not precisely the same as him saying "it's OK if the women die", because he's arguing that that situation wouldn't come up.

    burntman: The argument is whether he is being a hypocrite in trying to ban a procedure which both him and his wife stated they were willing to perform in order to save her life.

    I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that in Karen's case, her life being endangered, he wouldn't have had a moral problem with labor being induced. I do, however, think that legal burdens his overly narrow interpretation of the situation would have imposed on women in Karen's situation would have made it considerably more likely that they would in fact die or suffer serious other adverse health effects.

    burntman: That's an intact foetus which fits the the federal statute which defines "partial-birth abortion" as any abortion in which the fetus is extracted "past the navel [of the fetus]... outside the body of the mother,"

    No, because she miscarried before she was induced.

    burntman: So the only question is whether medically inducing the delivery of a living non-viable foetus counts as abortion.

    I don't think this ever came up, because she wasn't induced. If she had been, it would have fallen under the PABA life of the mother exception. Either that, or the doctor who induced her could have faced fines and jail time.

    burntman: And if I'm not mistaken Rick Santorum has indeed spoken on abortifacients as well. In fact that's his rationale for not allowing certain forms of birth control.

    Yeah, and that's irresponsible. Like "partial-birth abortion", the claims that hormonal contraceptives (including Plan B) act as abortifacients is politics attempting to draw clear lines where science cannot. There's no evidence as to whether they inhibit ovulation or implantation, and probably there are some cases of each.
    burntman 1528 2012-02-16 22:55:32.0 login to vote score 0
    sabine: No, because she miscarried before she was induced.

    The argument as to his hypocrisy is not that she was induced, she wasn't. Rather it's that they have both explicitly acknowledged that they would induce.

    Similarly, it is not a question of legality given the current law, rather it's a question of his stance and his commitment to banning the same procedure that he was willing to choose for his wife.
    sabine 745 2012-02-16 23:08:58.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman: his commitment to banning the same procedure that he was willing to choose for his wife

    Even if he wouldn't have banned it for her exact case, I think it's plain that his proposed restrictions would have resulted in significant impediments that may very well have affected her (potentially fatally) in the event that things got to that point.
    burntman 1528 2012-02-16 23:15:55.0 login to vote score 0
    sabine: Even if he wouldn't have banned it for her exact case, I think it's plain that his proposed restrictions would have resulted in significant impediments that may very well have affected her (potentially fatally) in the event that things got to that point.

    well that's where it gets really weird. The loss of their child happened in 1996. He pushed the PABA with the "never, never, never" quote around the same time. but if anything since then his views have become even less lenient as regards exceptions to abortions. I think the call of hypocrite is indeed a valid one.
    sabine 745 2012-02-16 23:17:41.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman: if anything since then his views have become even less lenient as regards exceptions to abortions

    I actually find the rape exception morally inconsistent. If the argument is that the rights of the fetus trump the rights of the mother, I don't see how the circumstances of conception are relevant.
    burntman 1528 2012-02-16 23:25:49.0 login to vote score 1
    sabine: I actually find the rape exception morally inconsistent. If the argument is that the rights of the fetus trump the rights of the mother, I don't see how the circumstances of conception are relevant.

    he has retracted that, as well as the incest exception. As it stands his position on abortion is completely in line with the catholic dogma. He's justified his previous willingness to compromise as a (then) means to an end. Now however he's pretty hardline. Although it seems that it is only really this area that he subscribes to the catholic position. In the others such as capital punishment, the teaching of evolution, welfare etc, he is certainly at odds with the church. I can only surmise he's pandering to the evangelicals and pandering hard.
    sabine 745 2012-02-16 23:28:13.0 login to vote score 1
    burntman: I can only surmise he's pandering to the evangelicals and pandering hard.

    If you believe in the notion of the three-legged stool of the Republican party, where one group cares most about social issues, one foreign policy, and the third fiscal policy, I think Gingrich is the darling of the foreign policy ones, and Romney the fiscal ones. That only leaves one group for Santorum to court.
    burntman 1528 2012-02-16 23:33:31.0 login to vote score 0
    sabine: If you believe in the notion of the three-legged stool of the Republican party, where one group cares most about social issues, one foreign policy, and the third fiscal policy, I think Gingrich is the darling of the foreign policy ones, and Romney the fiscal ones. That only leaves one group for Santorum to court.

    It certainly seems that he is concentrating on the single issue voters, I don't think anyone talks about homosexuality and abortion as much as he does.
    antialias 3250 2012-02-16 23:34:20.0 login to vote score 1
    burntman: It certainly seems that he is concentrating on the single issue voters, I don't think anyone talks about homosexuality and abortion as much as he does.

    Yeah, he has some weird fetishes, huh?
    burntman 1528 2012-02-16 23:34:55.0 login to vote score 0
    sabine: I think Gingrich is the darling of the foreign policy ones.

    That's actually an interesting one. What's Newts foreign policy like?
    sabine 745 2012-02-16 23:56:30.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman: That's actually an interesting one. What's Newts foreign policy like?

    The only consistent strain I can discern is that he thinks he's smarter than everybody else, and apparently quite a few people agree.
    sabine 745 2012-02-17 00:00:35.0 login to vote score 1
    burntman: That's actually an interesting one. What's Newts foreign policy like?

    BTW, I figured if anybody was going to get my "place for a Snark" reference upthread where gahbrone seems to imply that he can create truth by teling us the same thing three times, it would be you.
    burntman 1528 2012-02-17 00:14:10.0 login to vote score 1
    sabine: BTW, I figured if anybody was going to get my "place for a Snark" reference upthread where gahbrone seems to imply that he can create truth by teling us the same thing three times, it would be you.

    lol, nope, much to my shame, I boojumed that one :(
    antialias 3250 2012-02-17 00:29:14.0 login to vote score 2
    burntman: lol, nope, much to my shame, I boojumed that one :(

    Twas brillig, dude.
    cannonhawk 849 2012-02-17 00:37:11.0 login to vote score 0
    gahbrone played y'all like a harp from hell.
    bake 2096 2012-02-17 06:21:22.0 login to vote score 1
    cannonhawk: gahbrone played y'all like a harp from hell.

    his endurance is amazing!
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