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  • The Climate Change Skeptics are still as crazy as ever



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  • Tagged with : the sonic_tard

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    so vote republican 6688 2012-02-27 11:05:12.0 login to vote score 3
    Remember, the doomsayers are all crazy*.

    *Unless they are talking about climate change, in which case we're all fucked unless we do what they say right now.
    quick1 501 2012-02-27 11:18:07.0 login to vote score 7
    so vote republican: Remember, the doomsayers are all crazy*.

    *Unless they are talking about climate change, in which case we're all fucked unless we do what they say right now.


    Or maybe it's that some people who predict doomsday based on the bible, or ponies, or their tinfoil hat, are actually crazy. While on the other hand, some people who have actual FACTS and LINKS (you animals), and make predictions based on science, are a little harder to dismiss.
    whitebread 3463 2012-02-27 11:24:16.0 login to vote score 0
    Has this thread been tagged the sonic_tard yet?

    so vote republican 6688 2012-02-27 11:26:09.0 login to vote score 0
    quick1: Or maybe it's that some people who predict doomsday based on the bible, or ponies, or their tinfoil hat, are actually crazy. While on the other hand, some people who have actual FACTS and LINKS (you animals), and make predictions based on science, are a little harder to dismiss.

    Nawww, the ones with facts and links (like inflation, gold prices, etc) get called crazy too.
    sloth 222 2012-02-27 11:27:09.0 login to vote score 1
    Is it just me, or did the rebuttal like IMMEDIATELY misrepresent what he said? Come on, guys, you're supposed to be better than that.
    so vote republican 6688 2012-02-27 11:28:15.0 login to vote score 1
    sloth: Is it just me, or did the rebuttal like IMMEDIATELY misrepresent what he said? Come on, guys, you're supposed to be better than that.

    Look, you don't have to accurately represent what is said for a good ad hominem attack.
    sloth 222 2012-02-27 11:41:47.0 login to vote score 1
    Also, attacking users who aren't appearing in the thread is frowned upon in this establishment.
    so vote republican 6688 2012-02-27 11:49:51.0 login to vote score 0
    sloth: Also, attacking users who aren't appearing in the thread is frowned upon in this establishment.

    So are a lot of things...
    quick1 501 2012-02-27 11:50:40.0 login to vote score 0
    sloth: Also, attacking users who aren't appearing in the thread is frowned upon in this establishment.

    Oh, I was just having a bit of fun with the gahbrone meme.
    keerbip 4358 2012-02-27 11:51:17.0 login to vote score 5
    Frowning upon things is frowned upon around here.
    sloth 222 2012-02-27 11:51:23.0 login to vote score 0
    so vote republican: So are a lot of things...

    Such as riding the dog like a small pony?
    so vote republican 6688 2012-02-27 11:52:47.0 login to vote score 0
    keerbip: Frowning upon things is frowned upon around here.

    :(
    sloth 222 2012-02-27 11:53:59.0 login to vote score 1
    keerbip: Frowning upon things is frowned upon around here.


    quick1 501 2012-02-27 11:54:44.0 login to vote score 2
    keerbip: Frowning upon things is frowned upon around here.


    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-02-27 12:29:15.0 login to vote score 1
    O hai


    synthelim 6996 2012-02-27 12:45:42.0 login to vote score 0
    This is northern Ohio mind you. Lake Erie didn't even freeze over this year.


    sloth 222 2012-02-27 12:48:09.0 login to vote score 0
    synthelim: This is northern Ohio mind you. Lake Erie didn't even freeze over this year.
    [image removed]
    [image removed]


    Good for y'all?
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-02-27 12:50:58.0 login to vote score 0
    synthelim: This is northern Ohio mind you. Lake Erie didn't even freeze over this year.


    Too bad it won't be that way forever.

    This has been a great winter in the USA.
    synthelim 6996 2012-02-27 13:00:55.0 login to vote score 1
    the sonic dildo: Too bad it won't be that way forever.

    I'm hoping it won't. It's been spooky, even if it has been nice at times.

    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-02-27 13:04:48.0 login to vote score 0
    synthelim: I'm hoping it won't. It's been spooky, even if it has been nice at times.



    Nothing to be afraid of of.

    Lack of heat is much scarier than a slight excess of it.
    lard_baron 213 2012-02-27 13:07:55.0 login to vote score 1
    Prof Lindzen? isn't he the chaod that still, still! thinks the link between lung cancer and smoking remains unproven?


    Why yes he is. Just goes to show what an honorable man he is. If he's paid to doubt the scientific basis of something he'll doubt it till the end of his days.


    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-02-27 13:10:36.0 login to vote score 0
    lard_baron: Prof Lindzen? isn't he the chaod that still, still! thinks the link between lung cancer and smoking remains unproven?


    But people who do not smoke get lung cancer too.

    and people who are not gay get the AIDS
    whitebread 3463 2012-02-27 13:12:32.0 login to vote score 1
    lard_baron: Prof Lindzen? isn't he the chaod that still, still! thinks the link between lung cancer and smoking remains unproven?


    Why yes he is. Just goes to show what an honorable man he is. If he's paid to doubt the scientific basis of something he'll doubt it till the end of his days.


    Someone should pay him to doubt that dentists have time to be here 24/7 ;*D
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-02-27 13:16:13.0 login to vote score 0
    whitebread: Someone should pay him to doubt that dentists have time to be here 24/7 ;*D


    Yeah. I don't have to wait for school to let out before I am allowed to post.
    dividebyxero 9383 2012-02-27 13:29:29.0 login to vote score 2
    the sonic dildo: Yeah. I don't have to wait for school to let out before I am allowed to post.


    Unfortunately for us...
    jimmythehutt 2751 2012-02-27 13:36:46.0 login to vote score 1
    Clearly, Global Climate Change is a complete farce, then.
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-02-27 13:37:50.0 login to vote score 0
    dividebyxero: Unfortunately for us...


    Perhaps you should try a forum that is exclusive to closed minded liberals, you'll be in heaven.
    dividebyxero 9383 2012-02-27 13:53:24.0 login to vote score 1
    Anyway, as to the actual topic...


    I found this to be of particular interest:


    In science it is important to understand the discussion that is taking place, and to also understand what the current consensus is and why that consensus prevails. Lindzen is well-respected and so he is part of that discussion, but his one lone voice does not represent the entire conversation, just a fringe skeptical view far from the current consensus.

    Why would he be on the fringe? Is this the same guy who back in 2001 denied that smoking causes lung cancer? (yep see top of page-2) Could it possibly be the $2,500 a day he has received for his frequent “consulting” services rendered to oil and gas interests for him to officially deny anthropogenic global warming? no that cannot possibly be the reason.





    Which then led me to this article, a nice excerpt:



    Capital keeps its nose to the wind. The people who run the world's oil and coal companies know that the march of science, and of political action, may be slowed by disinformation. In the last year and a half, one of the leading oil industry public relations outlets, the Global Climate Coalition, has spent more than a million dollars to downplay the threat of climate change. It expects to spend another $850,000 on the issue next year. Similarly, the National Coal Association spent more than $700,000 on the global climate issue in 1992 and 1993. In 1993 alone, the American Petroleum Institute, just one of fifty-four industry members of the GCC, paid $1.8 million to the public relations firm of Burson-Marsteller partly in an effort to defeat a proposed tax on fossil fuels. For perspective, this is only slightly less than the combined yearly expenditures on global warming of the five major environmental groups that focus on climate issues—about $2.1 million, according to officials of the Environmental Defense Fund, the Natural Resources Defense Council, the Sierra Club, the Union of Concerned Scientists, and the World Wildlife Fund.

    For the most part the industry has relied on a small band of skeptics—Dr. Richard S. Lindzen, Dr. Pat Michaels, Dr. Robert Balling, Dr. Sherwood Idso, and Dr. S. Fred Singer, among others—who have proven extraordinarily adept at draining the issue of all sense of crisis. Through their frequent pronouncements in the press and on radio and television, they have helped to create the illusion that the question is hopelessly mired in unknowns. Most damaging has been their influence on decision makers; their contrarian views have allowed conservative Republicans such as Representative Dana Rohrabacher (R., Calif.) to dismiss legitimate research concerns as "liberal claptrap" and have provided the basis for the recent round of budget cuts to those government science programs designed to monitor the health of the planet.

    Last May, Minnesota held hearings in St. Paul to determine the environmental cost of coal burning by state power plants. Three of the skeptics—Lindzen, Michaels, and Balling—were hired as expert witnesses to testify on behalf of Western Fuels Association, a $400 million consortium of coal suppliers and coal-fired utilities.




    This is what blows me away. The motive for the deniers is crystal clear, following the money confirms the motive time and again. The supposed motive for the AGW advocates to lie makes no sense (Money. Particularly silly when they can make serious bank by joining the shills).
    brazil 316 2012-02-27 14:09:44.0 login to vote score 0
    In the Global Warming religion, all infidels must die.

    Just wait until someone burns a few models by accident.
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-02-27 14:11:00.0 login to vote score -2
    dividebyxero: The supposed motive for the AGW advocates to lie makes no sense (Money. Particularly silly when they can make serious bank by joining the shills).


    Huh? It makes total sense. The majority of AGW pushers are progressives who love to see the state enrich itself on taking money from private businesses and citizens. (that alone has never made sense)

    The core of the AGW movement is to use the lie that carbon in the problem so they can tax carbon emissions. They also want to form a system of wealth redistribution in the guise they are helping to develop the third world who can't comply with their draconian regulations. The socialists behind the movement will line their pockets while useful idiots like yourself shill for them all day long.


    kang 636 2012-02-27 14:24:07.0 login to vote score 2
    If Gaia had wanted all that carbon in the atmosphere, she wouldn't have gone to so much trouble to sequester it in the first place.
    so vote republican 6688 2012-02-27 14:29:46.0 login to vote score 0
    I'm just glad I'm going to live long enough to see one or the other side debunked.
    code_7 6865 2012-02-27 14:38:20.0 login to vote score 0
    lard_baron: Prof Lindzen? isn't he the chaod that still, still! thinks the link between lung cancer and smoking remains unproven?


    Why yes he is. Just goes to show what an honorable man he is. If he's paid to doubt the scientific basis of something he'll doubt it till the end of his days.


    See? He has his integrity!
    dividebyxero 9383 2012-02-27 15:24:54.0 login to vote score 1
    the sonic dildo: Huh? It makes total sense.


    Ahh, there's that denier cheerleader we've all come to know and love. Let's see how he's going to handle this one. This outta be good.







    the sonic dildo: The majority of AGW pushers are progressives who love to see the state enrich itself on taking money from private businesses and citizens. (that alone has never made sense)


    Most climate scientists, more than 97% , agree that burning fossil fuels leads to global warming.
    So they are all progressives? And they all want to see the state enrich itself on taking money from private businesses and citizens? And you know this how?


    A new Pew Research Center poll finds that 59% of adults say there is solid evidence that the earth's average temperature has been getting warmer over the past few decades.
    I thought that phildo said libs were a minority in this country. If that's so then how can THIS be?


    Jon Huntsman believes in evolution and global warming, so can he win a Republican primary?
    Apparently not. The cult of denial made sure to crucify him early on. Damn shame too. It would have been novel to have a Republican running that I might actually kinda like. Maybe someone found out that he's secretly into wealth redistribution through carbon tax credits?

    McCain used to support the idea that AGW was a threat and even advocated a strict cap-and-trade carbon market. Since Obama took over though, he's reversed his stance.

    Then there's Republicans Mike Castle of Delaware, Mark Kirk of Illinois, and a couple Republican contenders in upcoming senate elections that support the idea of AGW. Are they secret wealth redistribution advocates as well?






    the sonic dildo: The core of the AGW movement is to use the lie that carbon in the problem so they can tax carbon emissions.


    Carbon IS the problem. This isn't even up for debate.

    An enhanced greenhouse effect from CO2 has been confirmed by multiple lines of empirical evidence. Satellite measurements of infrared spectra over the past 40 years observe less energy escaping to space at the wavelengths associated with CO2. Surface measurements find more downward infrared radiation warming the planet's surface. This provides a direct, empirical causal link between CO2 and global warming.

    To deny it at this point is to try to convince all of us that water isn't wet.


    As far the carbon credits issue goes... There is no consensus among AGW advocates that carbon taxation is the best policy for dealing with the issue. It is but one proposal on the table. I personally am not a supporter of the carbon tax idea. But as much as I'd like to discuss alternative options for dealing with the problem I find that I can't due to the fact that some people haven't yet gotten past the fact that the problem is real.






    the sonic dildo: They also want to form a system of wealth redistribution in the guise they are helping to develop the third world who can't comply with their draconian regulations. The socialists behind the movement will line their pockets while useful idiots like yourself shill for them all day long.


    And you know as of this how? Do the voices in your head tell you these things? This is conspiracy theory bullshit of Czar proportions. Personal opinion offered up as though it were objective fact. You haven't a shred of proof. It has no basis in reality.




    So, in other words, every single thing phail said was either a lie, or personal opinion masquerading as fact.
    One more time... Phuck off phil!
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-02-27 15:27:20.0 login to vote score 0
    dividebyxero:

    Carbon IS the problem. This isn't even up for debate.



    Anyone that says that it is "not even up for debate" has already lost.


    dividebyxero 9383 2012-02-27 15:29:42.0 login to vote score 1
    the sonic dildo: Anyone that says that it is "not even up for debate" has already lost.


    Haven't you said it before...?
    sabine 745 2012-02-27 15:32:43.0 login to vote score 0
    dividebyxero: Phuck off phil!

    Why are you emulating his whitespace burn rate?
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-02-27 15:38:31.0 login to vote score 0
    kang: If Gaia had wanted all that carbon in the atmosphere, she wouldn't have gone to so much trouble to sequester it in the first place.


    Gaia was saving for us to advance our culture to the point we no longer need it and we can ascend to our rightful place in the galaxy using only pixie dust to blast from star system to star system
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-02-27 15:40:15.0 login to vote score 0
    sabine: Why are you emulating his whitespace burn rate?


    Is white space expensive and finite?

    /sirius question
    lard_baron 213 2012-02-27 15:41:26.0 login to vote score 2
    so vote republican: I'm just glad I'm going to live long enough to see one or the other side debunked.

    You've already seen it. But one side just won't accept the results.
    So long as they have the $$ to do so, they'll just muddy the waters and shout louder.
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-02-27 15:41:48.0 login to vote score 0
    dividebyxero: Haven't you said it before...?


    Not about this.

    Perhaps it was for something that actually is not even up for debate, like unfair taxation, fairness, liberal fascism or something like that

    :)
    sabine 745 2012-02-27 15:42:31.0 login to vote score 1
    the sonic dildo: Is white space expensive and finite?

    Screen real estate is, especially on mobile devices.
    lard_baron 213 2012-02-27 15:45:48.0 login to vote score 1
    dividebyxero: Carbon IS the problem. This isn't even up for debate.

    For some the debate over smoking being a cause of lung cancer isn't over yet.

    the sonic dildo: But people who do not smoke get lung cancer too

    laughable isn't it?

    quinnipegger 11267 2012-02-27 16:04:30.0 login to vote score 0
    Bunnythor doesn't like anyone responding to Phil. Please stop so that he can enjoy the bN experience.
    the loch ness street light 620 2012-02-27 16:06:32.0 login to vote score 0
    If there's one thing I've learned from the crazies, it's that global warming is fake and peak oil is real.
    baron muchhumpin 4248 2012-02-27 16:10:54.0 login to vote score 2
    the loch ness street light: If there's one thing I've learned from the crazies, it's that global warming is fake and peak oil is real.

    is phil posting again??

    dividebyxero 9383 2012-02-27 16:16:17.0 login to vote score 1
    lard_baron: You've already seen it. But one side just won't accept the results.
    So long as they have the $$ to do so, they'll just muddy the waters and shout louder.



    This.
    howie_feltersnatch 11 2012-02-27 16:16:43.0 login to vote score 2
    I'm not 100% convinced. Most on either side of the argument are misrepresenting the opposite side and generally just being fucking douchebags about the debate. How about we all just decide to stop polluting our planet so fucking much?
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-02-27 16:18:55.0 login to vote score 0
    dividebyxero:
    And you know as of this how? Do the voices in your head tell you these things? This is conspiracy theory bullshit of Czar proportions. Personal opinion offered up as though it were objective fact. You haven't a shred of proof. It has no basis in reality.




    It is so fucking obvious.

    Do they want to tax carbon?

    Do they want to redistribute the wealth?

    dividebyxero 9383 2012-02-27 16:19:09.0 login to vote score 1
    the sonic dildo: Not about this.

    Perhaps it was for something that actually is not even up for debate, like unfair taxation, fairness, liberal fascism or something like that

    :)




    Liberal fascism??

    What the fuck???


    fas-cism (fash'iz'em) n. A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism.


    I guess I need to update the phil to English dictionary...


    ***The Actual English - What Phil Thinks It Means***


    Conservative - Liberal
    Libertarian - Conservative
    Liberal - Authoritarian/Fascist
    Progressive - Authoritarian
    Left Wing - Authoritarian
    Authoritarian - The Embodiment of All That is Evil and Unholy in the Multiverse
    Up - Down
    Black - White
    Moderate - N/A, No Such Thing
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-02-27 16:20:41.0 login to vote score 1
    howie_feltersnatch: I'm not 100% convinced. Most on either side of the argument are misrepresenting the opposite side and generally just being fucking douchebags about the debate. How about we all just decide to stop polluting our planet so fucking much?


    That is the right idea. I support your idea all the way.
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-02-27 16:23:26.0 login to vote score 0
    dividebyxero: Liberal fascism??

    What the fuck???





    Look it up.
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-02-27 16:23:54.0 login to vote score 0
    sabine: Screen real estate is, especially on mobile devices.


    I'll try to conserve it.
    baron muchhumpin 4248 2012-02-27 16:25:02.0 login to vote score 1
    howie_feltersnatch: How about we all just decide to stop polluting our planet so fucking much?

    If the corporate world could do this on their own without regulations then the discussion may be different

    but this is not the case

    sabine 745 2012-02-27 16:25:29.0 login to vote score 0
    howie_feltersnatch: Most on either side of the argument are misrepresenting the opposite side

    Have you read skepticalscience? Do you consider it misrepresentative of the other side? If so, how?
    dividebyxero 9383 2012-02-27 16:26:46.0 login to vote score 2
    the sonic dildo: It is so fucking obvious.

    Do they want to tax carbon?



    Already answered this one. No, not universally. Some think it's a good idea, some don't. I remain unconvinced. Still room for discussion of the topic though.





    the sonic dildo: Do they want to redistribute the wealth?


    Soviet Russia style? No.
    This is a boogy man that exists only in your head. You see it in every shadowy corner and around every bend. But the left does not want to take all the money away from rich people and give it to the poor. Well... except for actual communists like Communist Party USA. But they're as fringe and taken about as seriously anymore as the KKK. We point, laugh, and make sure they receive only soft foods.
    kang 636 2012-02-27 16:28:11.0 login to vote score 1
    The climate is chaotic which means small inputs can have large effects and large inputs can have small effects. I haven't quite worked out the equation yet but, also, adding energy to a chaotic system amplifies the results any input.

    Adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere is both an input and adds energy to the climate system through absorbed sunlight.

    Scientifically, this equates to "we're not sure exactly what will happen but what might happen could be spectacular (ly bad)*".

    *for humans having grown accustomed to the current climate/sea levels...
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-02-27 16:51:13.0 login to vote score 0
    sabine: Have you read skepticalscience? Do you consider it misrepresentative of the other side? If so, how?


    Skeptical science is a website devoted to push AGW .

    /just sayin'

    :)
    dividebyxero 9383 2012-02-27 16:59:05.0 login to vote score 2
    the sonic dildo: Look it up.


    I did this just now. It's the title of a book by Jonah Goldberg, which has been slammed by everyone and their brother, save for right-wingers looking for any and all straws they can grasp at in order to demonize the left. It's about as intellectually rigorous as Highlights for Children. I'm not surprised you read this trash.


    How about some facts instead.

    In the 1930s the fascist powers approached the major corporations in their respective countries and engaged in cronyism of a magnitude that would make the most hardcore wall street uber-capitalist cream his Armani suit. Captains of industry colluded with government to become fatcats of the highest order, while the governments got all the material they needed to engage in campaigns of armed conquest. As far as they were concerned it was win-win. The rest of the world disagreed. Somewhat.




    Germany's take on dealing with the Great Depression was so impressive to American captains of industry, who were enraged by Roosevelt's leftist policies to deal with the crisis (which DID eventually succeed), that several of them conspired to overthrow the American government and replace it with a fascist one. It came to be known as "The Business Plot". A number of prominent businessmen were implicated, including Irénée du Pont (yes, THAT du Pont), but there wasn't enough evidence to charge anyone. It DID kill any chance of getting such a conspiracy off the ground, however. The FBI watched everyone involved for years after it came out.



    I've got history on my side, dude. You still want to try to keep associating liberalism with fascism? I can certainly offer a few more counterpunches you won't like.

    For example, the late US senator Prescott Bush (Grandfather of George W Bush) was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany. His company's assets were eventually seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act.

    History is full of all kinds of cool shit like that. That's why it has long been one of my favorite subjects.
    dividebyxero 9383 2012-02-27 17:03:36.0 login to vote score 1
    the sonic dildo: Skeptical science is a website devoted to push AGW .

    /just sayin'

    :)




    Yes. And? We shouldn't trust any data there why?
    zolividor 642 2012-02-27 17:25:26.0 login to vote score 4

    strayling 20 2012-02-27 17:34:59.0 login to vote score 2
    Delingpole is not to be taken seriously. He's picked a controversial stance purely for the purpose of gaining notoriety and cares nothing for the truth.
    quinblake 1476 2012-02-27 17:35:47.0 login to vote score 1
    howie_feltersnatch: I'm not 100% convinced. Most on either side of the argument are misrepresenting the opposite side and generally just being fucking douchebags about the debate. How about we all just decide to stop polluting our planet so fucking much?

    Because of the vile wealth redistributors.
    strayling 20 2012-02-27 17:39:13.0 login to vote score 2
    quinblake: Because of the vile wealth redistributors.

    You owe me one (1) new sarcasm meter.
    farkmeblind 482 2012-02-27 17:49:09.0 login to vote score 1
    strayling: Delingpole is not to be taken seriously. He's picked a controversial stance purely for the purpose of gaining notoriety and cares nothing for the truth.

    Sounds familiar.
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-02-27 20:22:41.0 login to vote score -1
    dividebyxero: I did this just now. It's the title of a book by Jonah Goldberg, which has been slammed by everyone and their brother, save for right-wingers looking for any and all straws they can grasp at in order to demonize the left. It's about as intellectually rigorous as Highlights for Children. I'm not surprised you read this trash.


    How about some facts instead.

    In the 1930s the fascist powers approached the major corporations in their respective countries and engaged in cronyism of a magnitude that would make the most hardcore wall street uber-capitalist cream his Armani suit. Captains of industry colluded with government to become fatcats of the highest order, while the governments got all the material they needed to engage in campaigns of armed conquest. As far as they were concerned it was win-win. The rest of the world disagreed. Somewhat.




    Germany's take on dealing with the Great Depression was so impressive to American captains of industry, who were enraged by Roosevelt's leftist policies to deal with the crisis (which DID eventually succeed), that several of them conspired to overthrow the American government and replace it with a fascist one. It came to be known as "The Business Plot". A number of prominent businessmen were implicated, including Irénée du Pont (yes, THAT du Pont), but there wasn't enough evidence to charge anyone. It DID kill any chance of getting such a conspiracy off the ground, however. The FBI watched everyone involved for years after it came out.



    I've got history on my side, dude. You still want to try to keep associating liberalism with fascism? I can certainly offer a few more counterpunches you won't like.

    For example, the late US senator Prescott Bush (Grandfather of George W Bush) was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany. His company's assets were eventually seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act.

    History is full of all kinds of cool shit like that. That's why it has long been one of my favorite subjects.



    Hitler was left wing dude.
    If you logged in, you could post here.