BREAKING SHIT! New 911 call, Trayvon screaming in terror for 30 seconds, "HELP! HELP ME! NOOOOO! and the BANG!
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Tagged with : 8 seconds , coilence begets violence , flashshit , mrotal danger , red hot nuts , shitflash , voilence begets violence , whitey mcpsychoson What are tags? |
Suge !
code_7: they are wondering how to get it closed again...
This paper argues for substituting a duty to display "reasonable self-control" for the "reasonable belief of threat" language when it comes to self-defense. That sounds like a good idea to me, because it gets the focus pointing towards actions and away from thoughts.
This paper argues for substituting a duty to display "reasonable self-control" for the "reasonable belief of threat" language when it comes to self-defense. That sounds like a good idea to me, because it gets the focus pointing towards actions and away from thoughts.
swingingjohnson: 2 important question I wish some reporters would uncover but haven't read this info yet.
1. What is the height and weight of both Zimmerman and Martin?
2. Have the police taken any measures to prevent Zimmerman fleeing from the state?
I think this was in the other thread.
Zimmerman @ 260#
Martin @140#
Don't know the heights.
No, they haven't. In fact, the apparent complete and total lack of LEO presence in Zimmerman's life after this shooting seems to indicate some hope that he might just run away and save them the trouble of ever having to pretend to care what happened that night.
1. What is the height and weight of both Zimmerman and Martin?
2. Have the police taken any measures to prevent Zimmerman fleeing from the state?
I think this was in the other thread.
Zimmerman @ 260#
Martin @140#
Don't know the heights.
No, they haven't. In fact, the apparent complete and total lack of LEO presence in Zimmerman's life after this shooting seems to indicate some hope that he might just run away and save them the trouble of ever having to pretend to care what happened that night.
supergrover:
Holy fuck, is he dead?
BTW, I was going to reply w/ 'Knight!' after Clifton
He looks dead there.
Holy fuck, is he dead?
BTW, I was going to reply w/ 'Knight!' after Clifton
He looks dead there.
swingingjohnson: No sir.
The police have every right to order a person under suspicion to not leave town regardless if they are under arrest.
The police don't have the right, if I recall correctly. That would be the DA.
The police have every right to order a person under suspicion to not leave town regardless if they are under arrest.
The police don't have the right, if I recall correctly. That would be the DA.
OK, nm, I 'inspected' the 'element' and saw that he was knocked out, still sounds like an interesting story there...
Imagine the fucker that could lay that guy out! damn...
Imagine the fucker that could lay that guy out! damn...
flashlv: There is no recording of a call between him and the girlfriend.
I thought that, but they just played something on CBS Evening news of a kids asking what are you following me for (or whatever) and it didn't say dramatization or anything on screen. Dunno. Maybe there is.
I thought that, but they just played something on CBS Evening news of a kids asking what are you following me for (or whatever) and it didn't say dramatization or anything on screen. Dunno. Maybe there is.
supergrover: I thought that, but they just played something on CBS Evening news of a kids asking what are you following me for (or whatever) and it didn't say dramatization or anything on screen. Dunno. Maybe there is.
Probably from the 911 call.
Probably from the 911 call.
code_7: Holy fuck, is he dead?
BTW, I was going to reply w/ 'Knight!' after Clifton
He looks dead there.
Nah, it said "Suge knocked out" on the GIS.
BTW, I was going to reply w/ 'Knight!' after Clifton
He looks dead there.
Nah, it said "Suge knocked out" on the GIS.
flashlv: The police don't have the right, if I recall correctly. That would be the DA.
Yeah. You're right.
Dammit!
Yeah. You're right.
Dammit!
supergrover: I thought that, but they just played something on CBS Evening news of a kids asking what are you following me for (or whatever) and it didn't say dramatization or anything on screen. Dunno. Maybe there is.
Even if Z shot M's phone, they should be able to go all NCIS and extract it from the cell company records.
Even if Z shot M's phone, they should be able to go all NCIS and extract it from the cell company records.
flashlv: A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
Looks like that applies in this case.
I didn't see the word "chase" anywhere in there.
Looks like that applies in this case.
I didn't see the word "chase" anywhere in there.
supergrover: I thought that, but they just played something on CBS Evening news of a kids asking what are you following me for (or whatever) and it didn't say dramatization or anything on screen. Dunno. Maybe there is.
I think there is. What you just heard is verbatim what ABC is reporting as the substance of the call.
I think there is. What you just heard is verbatim what ABC is reporting as the substance of the call.
farkmeblind: I think there is. What you just heard is verbatim what ABC is reporting as the substance of the call.
I don't think there's a recording of the call. There's the GF's account of what was said and phone company records showing that the call happened when she said it did.
I don't think there's a recording of the call. There's the GF's account of what was said and phone company records showing that the call happened when she said it did.
sabine: I don't think there's a recording of the call. There's the GF's account of what was said and phone company records showing that the call happened when she said it did.
Then they need to get Tommy Gemcity on the case.
Then they need to get Tommy Gemcity on the case.
sabine: I don't think there's a recording of the call. There's the GF's account of what was said and phone company records showing that the call happened when she said it did.
Like I said, there was something played on CBS News that seemed like a call. Not sure how that would have worked, which is why I won't say there was a recording of the call.
Like I said, there was something played on CBS News that seemed like a call. Not sure how that would have worked, which is why I won't say there was a recording of the call.
farkmeblind: Even if Z shot M's phone, they should be able to go all NCIS and extract it from the cell company records.
Extract what?
Extract what?
supergrover: Extract what?
The recording of the call. I have no idea how much of that is fun TV Majik, but if they can sniff your packets for downloadybits, can't they sniff em for audio? That's assuming there are copies available somewhere at the provider and/or that such things would be stored on the chip.
The recording of the call. I have no idea how much of that is fun TV Majik, but if they can sniff your packets for downloadybits, can't they sniff em for audio? That's assuming there are copies available somewhere at the provider and/or that such things would be stored on the chip.
supergrover: Like I said, there was something played on CBS News that seemed like a call.
Like osiris said, the most likely source for that would seem to be the 911 call.
Like osiris said, the most likely source for that would seem to be the 911 call.
farkmeblind: I think there is. What you just heard is verbatim what ABC is reporting as the substance of the call.
I really hope they don't have a recording of that phone call, actually, just because that would be really, really scary. That would tell me that they are recording all phone calls, all the time or something.
/unless of course, one of the two callers were recording, in which case, I hope they do have them...
I really hope they don't have a recording of that phone call, actually, just because that would be really, really scary. That would tell me that they are recording all phone calls, all the time or something.
/unless of course, one of the two callers were recording, in which case, I hope they do have them...
code_7: I really hope they don't have a recording of that phone call, actually, just because that would be really, really scary. That would tell me that they are recording all phone calls, all the time or something.
/unless of course, one of the two callers were recording, in which case, I hope they do have them...
You really think they don't?
I'm torn. One the one hand, nearly everyone in MN that I've met believes there is someone actively listening in on cell calls at all times. They also keep their shades closed in case someone might be looking in and keep all the windows shut and locked if they go out for more than ten minutes.
In California, damn near no one believes that, ime.
/unless of course, one of the two callers were recording, in which case, I hope they do have them...
You really think they don't?
I'm torn. One the one hand, nearly everyone in MN that I've met believes there is someone actively listening in on cell calls at all times. They also keep their shades closed in case someone might be looking in and keep all the windows shut and locked if they go out for more than ten minutes.
In California, damn near no one believes that, ime.
sabine: Like osiris said, the most likely source for that would seem to be the 911 call.
I didn't realize the Zimmerman call was that long. Well, it validates the conversation the girlfriend claims.
I didn't realize the Zimmerman call was that long. Well, it validates the conversation the girlfriend claims.
code_7: That would tell me that they are recording all phone calls, all the time or something.
...which would be illegal.
...which would be illegal.
supergrover: I didn't realize the Zimmerman call was that long.
Lots of witnesses called 911 as well. Here's a bunch of transcripts.
Lots of witnesses called 911 as well. Here's a bunch of transcripts.
farkmeblind: You really think they don't?
I'm torn. One the one hand, nearly everyone in MN that I've met believes there is someone actively listening in on cell calls at all times. They also keep their shades closed in case someone might be looking in and keep all the windows shut and locked if they go out for more than ten minutes.
In California, damn near no one believes that, ime.
Who knows, but the fact they are building out a yottabyte level information warehouse would lead me to believe that the question is not what are they recording but what aren't they recording...
I'm torn. One the one hand, nearly everyone in MN that I've met believes there is someone actively listening in on cell calls at all times. They also keep their shades closed in case someone might be looking in and keep all the windows shut and locked if they go out for more than ten minutes.
In California, damn near no one believes that, ime.
Who knows, but the fact they are building out a yottabyte level information warehouse would lead me to believe that the question is not what are they recording but what aren't they recording...
farkmeblind: In California, damn near no one believes that, ime.
Yeah, I think thats some genuine MN paranoia happening in real time for you there.
Of course, they could be right and the rest of us just aren't paranoid enough.
Once they start using these recordings to vilify/justify people, places or things then I'll start believing that they are listening in or recording everything. Right now though, I just haven't seen any evidence that they are...
/yet, of course
Yeah, I think thats some genuine MN paranoia happening in real time for you there.
Of course, they could be right and the rest of us just aren't paranoid enough.
Once they start using these recordings to vilify/justify people, places or things then I'll start believing that they are listening in or recording everything. Right now though, I just haven't seen any evidence that they are...
/yet, of course
swingingjohnson: Once the voice is confirmed as the kid's, Zimmerman is toast.
I came in here to ask if the voice had been confirmed. Has it?
I came in here to ask if the voice had been confirmed. Has it?
osirisothedead: flash's response to this is that "following people isn't illegal".
I saw on facebook supergrover got followed by some guy today in a car (SG was walking). He got scared and picked up the pace; car kept following. He started running and the guy got out of the car and chased him into a yard, "pinned him" in there and they "scuffled." Haven't heard from SG since! I think he's worried a lot of folks.
Following people like that should be illegal!
I saw on facebook supergrover got followed by some guy today in a car (SG was walking). He got scared and picked up the pace; car kept following. He started running and the guy got out of the car and chased him into a yard, "pinned him" in there and they "scuffled." Haven't heard from SG since! I think he's worried a lot of folks.
Following people like that should be illegal!
selectivedisclosure: I saw on facebook supergrover got followed by some guy today in a car (SG was walking). He got scared and picked up the pace; car kept following. He started running and the guy got out of the car and chased him into a yard, "pinned him" in there and they "scuffled." Haven't heard from SG since! I think he's worried a lot of folks.
Following people like that should be illegal!
Check again.
Following people like that should be illegal!
Check again.
flashlv: Again, not completely true. If the guy was truly fearing for his life, does he not have the ability to protect himself?
There is ALWAYS a "reasonable person" standard. If a reasonable person wouldn't think themselves in danger, then the self defense defense is no more. You can't just shoot someone and then say, "but I was scared!" and get a blanket get-out-of-jail-free card
There is ALWAYS a "reasonable person" standard. If a reasonable person wouldn't think themselves in danger, then the self defense defense is no more. You can't just shoot someone and then say, "but I was scared!" and get a blanket get-out-of-jail-free card
supergrover: Check again.
Phew! Last I checked you had disappeared, but I have been clicking through 10,000 more documents and spacing out as my hand took breaks from stinging! Glad you're OK. Your friends seemed worried!
Phew! Last I checked you had disappeared, but I have been clicking through 10,000 more documents and spacing out as my hand took breaks from stinging! Glad you're OK. Your friends seemed worried!
supergrover: Check again.
Ahhh, just checked back. You clever dog, you.
Is it different because you're a cute dog eating a cupcake?
Ahhh, just checked back. You clever dog, you.
Is it different because you're a cute dog eating a cupcake?
sabine: ...which would be illegal.
Like that matters. Buy a couple of semi-tame lobbyists and nothing is illegal.
Like that matters. Buy a couple of semi-tame lobbyists and nothing is illegal.
code_7: Yeah, I think thats some genuine MN paranoia happening in real time for you there.
Of course, they could be right and the rest of us just aren't paranoid enough.
Once they start using these recordings to vilify/justify people, places or things then I'll start believing that they are listening in or recording everything. Right now though, I just haven't seen any evidence that they are...
/yet, of course
Fair enough, and yes, the vast majority of Minnesotans I've met are incredibly paranoid. The entire culture is.
Of course, they could be right and the rest of us just aren't paranoid enough.
Once they start using these recordings to vilify/justify people, places or things then I'll start believing that they are listening in or recording everything. Right now though, I just haven't seen any evidence that they are...
/yet, of course
Fair enough, and yes, the vast majority of Minnesotans I've met are incredibly paranoid. The entire culture is.
farkmeblind: You really think they don't?
I'm torn. One the one hand, nearly everyone in MN that I've met believes there is someone actively listening in on cell calls at all times. They also keep their shades closed in case someone might be looking in and keep all the windows shut and locked if they go out for more than ten minutes.
In California, damn near no one believes that, ime.
Confession? I have an iPhone case that flips and covers the entire thing because I swear they can spy on people through the cameras! None of the cell phone stores carry cases that cover the front camera (so even when you set it down and cover the back one, they can still watch). I had to track down the only one I could find for the 4S. It's a conspiracy. *snaps tin foil thong*
I'm torn. One the one hand, nearly everyone in MN that I've met believes there is someone actively listening in on cell calls at all times. They also keep their shades closed in case someone might be looking in and keep all the windows shut and locked if they go out for more than ten minutes.
In California, damn near no one believes that, ime.
Confession? I have an iPhone case that flips and covers the entire thing because I swear they can spy on people through the cameras! None of the cell phone stores carry cases that cover the front camera (so even when you set it down and cover the back one, they can still watch). I had to track down the only one I could find for the 4S. It's a conspiracy. *snaps tin foil thong*
farkmeblind: Fair enough, and yes, the vast majority of Minnesotans I've met are incredibly paranoid. The entire culture is.
You'd be paranoid too if you thought Martin Luther would drag you to hell for lutefisk and hotdish for all eternity.
You'd be paranoid too if you thought Martin Luther would drag you to hell for lutefisk and hotdish for all eternity.
selectivedisclosure: I came in here to ask if the voice had been confirmed. Has it?
1. It certainly sounds like the voice of a teenager.
2. Two of the 911 callers could not determine if it was a man or woman when asked.
3. The father says he is positive it was his sons last words, screaming for help.
4. Why would a 240 lbs man be screaming like that when he had a gun and the kid was 140lbs?
So with that info we have so far it looks like it will prove to be the kids voice.
1. It certainly sounds like the voice of a teenager.
2. Two of the 911 callers could not determine if it was a man or woman when asked.
3. The father says he is positive it was his sons last words, screaming for help.
4. Why would a 240 lbs man be screaming like that when he had a gun and the kid was 140lbs?
So with that info we have so far it looks like it will prove to be the kids voice.
selectivedisclosure: Confession? I have an iPhone case that flips and covers the entire thing because I swear they can spy on people through the cameras! None of the cell phone stores carry cases that cover the front camera (so even when you set it down and cover the back one, they can still watch). I had to track down the only one I could find for the 4S. It's a conspiracy. *snaps tin foil thong*
I...the visual...BWAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAA!
Oh, that was good. Thank you.
mike.refreshment: You'd be paranoid too if you thought Martin Luther would drag you to hell for lutefisk and hotdish for all eternity.
GET THEE BEHIND ME, STAN A.!
I...the visual...BWAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAA!
Oh, that was good. Thank you.
mike.refreshment: You'd be paranoid too if you thought Martin Luther would drag you to hell for lutefisk and hotdish for all eternity.
GET THEE BEHIND ME, STAN A.!
selectivedisclosure: There is ALWAYS a "reasonable person" standard. If a reasonable person wouldn't think themselves in danger, then the self defense defense is no more. You can't just shoot someone and then say, "but I was scared!" and get a blanket get-out-of-jail-free card
That's not completely correct since it's different for children, women and man.
That's not completely correct since it's different for children, women and man.
flashlv: It's not illegal in all states, is it illegal in Florida?
Yes it's illegal in all states for entities that are not party to a conversation (e.g. phone companies) to record conversations without a court order. That's what the brouhaha over warrantless wiretaps is all about. Additionally, yes Florida is one of those states where all parties must consent.
Yes it's illegal in all states for entities that are not party to a conversation (e.g. phone companies) to record conversations without a court order. That's what the brouhaha over warrantless wiretaps is all about. Additionally, yes Florida is one of those states where all parties must consent.
ANYWAY, the way this Florida stand your ground law reads, what's to prevent someone from shooting a cop because they felt threatened and thought the cop was deranged?
This law needs to tweaked and adjusted.
This is fucking anarchy.
This law needs to tweaked and adjusted.
This is fucking anarchy.
sabine: Yes it's illegal in all states for entities that are not party to a conversation (e.g. phone companies) to record conversations without a court order. That's what the brouhaha over warrantless wiretaps is all about. Additionally, yes Florida is one of those states where all parties must consent.
It was not specified that it was a 3rd party :/
in that case yes, but you have the ability yo record your own calls in certain states without informing the other person.
It was not specified that it was a 3rd party :/
in that case yes, but you have the ability yo record your own calls in certain states without informing the other person.
flashlv: It was not specified that it was a 3rd party :/
If you can read code_7's post that I was responding to, and not come away with the impression that the "they" doing the recording is either the phone company or some government agency, I really don't know what else to say.
If you can read code_7's post that I was responding to, and not come away with the impression that the "they" doing the recording is either the phone company or some government agency, I really don't know what else to say.
Zimmerman needs to be put away for life. They also need to get rid of that stupid law.
flashlv: It was not specified that it was a 3rd party :/
Uh, well they eliminated the possibility of the two parties being responsible for the recording. Which party do you think they meant?
code_7:
/unless of course, one of the two callers were recording, in which case, I hope they do have them...
Uh, well they eliminated the possibility of the two parties being responsible for the recording. Which party do you think they meant?
code_7:
/unless of course, one of the two callers were recording, in which case, I hope they do have them...
sabine: If you can read code_7's post that I was responding to, and not come away with the impression that the "they" doing the recording is either the phone company or some government agency, I really don't know what else to say.
supergrover: Uh, well they eliminated the possibility of the two parties being responsible for the recording. Which party do you think they meant?
I think the Obtusifier Express just ran aground ;^D
supergrover: Uh, well they eliminated the possibility of the two parties being responsible for the recording. Which party do you think they meant?
I think the Obtusifier Express just ran aground ;^D
flashlv: That's not completely correct since it's different for children, women and man.
A reasonable person in their shoes, so it takes into consideration age, gender, etc
A reasonable person in their shoes, so it takes into consideration age, gender, etc
selectivedisclosure: A reasonable person in their shoes, so it takes into consideration age, gender, etc
Lemme guess, the next objection is that not all people have the same shoe size.
*eyeroll*
Lemme guess, the next objection is that not all people have the same shoe size.
*eyeroll*
selectivedisclosure: A reasonable person in their shoes, so it takes into consideration age, gender, etc
reasonable person and flashspert usually don't go in the same sentence
TMYK
reasonable person and flashspert usually don't go in the same sentence
TMYK
selectivedisclosure: You can't just shoot someone and then say, "but I was scared!" and get a blanket get-out-of-jail-free card
It would seem that in practice it might depend upon the blackness of the person you shot.
Here's hoping I've spoken too soon.
It would seem that in practice it might depend upon the blackness of the person you shot.
Here's hoping I've spoken too soon.
selectivedisclosure: A reasonable person in their shoes, so it takes into consideration age, gender, etc
Do you know if that was done or not? No you do not.
Do you know if that was done or not? No you do not.
flashlv: Do you know if that was done or not? No you do not.
What the fuck are you talking about? I don't think you really understand what the hell she said. A reasonable person would not run after someone they were afraid was going to hurt them... this guy made no attempt to disengage when there was ample opportunity. It's not as if the kid was making off with something of his or threatening a loved one.
What the fuck are you talking about? I don't think you really understand what the hell she said. A reasonable person would not run after someone they were afraid was going to hurt them... this guy made no attempt to disengage when there was ample opportunity. It's not as if the kid was making off with something of his or threatening a loved one.
supergrover: What the fuck are you talking about? I don't think you really understand what the hell she said. A reasonable person would not run after someone they were afraid was going to hurt them... this guy made no attempt to disengage when there was ample opportunity. It's not as if the kid was making off with something of his or threatening a loved one.
That's irrelevant, since you can chase then have it turn into a bad choice.
How do yo know he did not engage though?!?!
That's irrelevant, since you can chase then have it turn into a bad choice.
How do yo know he did not engage though?!?!
selectivedisclosure: A reasonable person in their shoes, so it takes into consideration age, gender, etc
That reasonable person argument plays a huge role here where we have just so many different cultures. There's a pretty interesting movie revolving around just that called A Reasonable Man based on an actual 1933 case. Don't know if you can get it on that there netflix thingie you guys have.
That reasonable person argument plays a huge role here where we have just so many different cultures. There's a pretty interesting movie revolving around just that called A Reasonable Man based on an actual 1933 case. Don't know if you can get it on that there netflix thingie you guys have.
flashlv: That's irrelevant, since you can chase then have it turn into a bad choice.
But you have lost the upper hand in the argument re: self defense. (in the immediacy, of course. if you engage and then things go well and the guy later attacks you, it's a new game) You can't claim you are scare of the guy and then run after him.
How do yo know he did not engage though?!?!
? I'm not sure what you are asking. You realize you are just reasking the same stupid shit that people keep explaining. Are you maintaining your contrarian attitude even in real life?
\This code won't work.
\\Are you entirely sure it won't work? Did you compile it and test it in the sandbox AND in a beta environment?
But you have lost the upper hand in the argument re: self defense. (in the immediacy, of course. if you engage and then things go well and the guy later attacks you, it's a new game) You can't claim you are scare of the guy and then run after him.
How do yo know he did not engage though?!?!
? I'm not sure what you are asking. You realize you are just reasking the same stupid shit that people keep explaining. Are you maintaining your contrarian attitude even in real life?
\This code won't work.
\\Are you entirely sure it won't work? Did you compile it and test it in the sandbox AND in a beta environment?
flashlv: That's irrelevant, since you can chase then have it turn into a bad choice.
How do yo know he did not engage though?!?!
owwww.. the stupid hurts so much
flash, he was told NOT to follow, he followed. He confronted the kid and then shot him
if you cannot connect those dots, go jump in front of a truck
How do yo know he did not engage though?!?!
owwww.. the stupid hurts so much
flash, he was told NOT to follow, he followed. He confronted the kid and then shot him
if you cannot connect those dots, go jump in front of a truck
selectivedisclosure: A reasonable person in their shoes, so it takes into consideration age, gender, etc
Zimmerman is definitely a flight risk. I don't imagine he would be holed up in his house right now with an mob with pitchfork forming.
And the the DA said they will take it to the Grand Jury that form on April 10th to decide if he should be arrested.
WTF is going on here selectiveD?
Zimmerman is definitely a flight risk. I don't imagine he would be holed up in his house right now with an mob with pitchfork forming.
And the the DA said they will take it to the Grand Jury that form on April 10th to decide if he should be arrested.
WTF is going on here selectiveD?
Lmfao
Those motherfucking libtards @ Fark deleted the pictures I made.
Cry me a fucking river.
Those motherfucking libtards @ Fark deleted the pictures I made.
Cry me a fucking river.
Cbc is doing a much better job of reporting this than any USian outlet.
myinternetname: Lmfao
Those motherfucking libtards @ Fark deleted the pictures I made.
Cry me a fucking river.
What pics?
Those motherfucking libtards @ Fark deleted the pictures I made.
Cry me a fucking river.
What pics?
myinternetname: Lmfao
Those motherfucking libtards @ Fark deleted the pictures I made.
Cry me a fucking river.
"Advertisers don't like that crap." -Ted Kennedy
Those motherfucking libtards @ Fark deleted the pictures I made.
Cry me a fucking river.
"Advertisers don't like that crap." -Ted Kennedy
flashlv: A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
Looks like that applies in this case.
If he was standing his ground, the kid would be dead in the street next to his (Zimmerman's) truck where he initially told the police the kid attacked him from behind without provocation... before he changed his story.
So:
"Stand your ground" and "no duty to retreat" mean 'run after someone' to you. At least... it does in certain situations.
I see what situations those are.
Looks like that applies in this case.
If he was standing his ground, the kid would be dead in the street next to his (Zimmerman's) truck where he initially told the police the kid attacked him from behind without provocation... before he changed his story.
So:
"Stand your ground" and "no duty to retreat" mean 'run after someone' to you. At least... it does in certain situations.
I see what situations those are.
swingingjohnson: What pics?
The one of him in his hoodie that said "You gonna get slained" and this one
Rainbows
The one of him in his hoodie that said "You gonna get slained" and this one
Rainbows
OH LAWDY.
clifton: Did you see the piles of shit that flash left behind?
I miss chippey.
/shitflash
//flashshit
I miss chippey.
/shitflash
//flashshit
czarangelus: Seriously, Zimmerman had a very fucked up tone in his call. He sounded like he identified a culprit in his own mind and wasn't gonna let him get away, period. Zimmerman couldn't find trouble so he made his own, and it's astonishing he has yet to be sent up the river. I think he inevitably will be. There's too much national heat for a three horse and a stoplight town like Sanford FL
Sanford is an actual city.
Sanford is an actual city.
swingingjohnson: Zimmerman is definitely a flight risk. I don't imagine he would be holed up in his house right now with an mob with pitchfork forming.
And the the DA said they will take it to the Grand Jury that form on April 10th to decide if he should be arrested.
WTF is going on here selectiveD?
I think that, at first, the self defense story made sense. Now that it's come to light that he called 911 70ish times, he is what they call a vigilante, meaning he is convinced something has gone wrong in his neighborhood and has been eager to "cure it" for a long time. I think he'll be arrested before April 10 and required to post bail if he is a flight risk. No idea if he has a car or passport or anything.
And the the DA said they will take it to the Grand Jury that form on April 10th to decide if he should be arrested.
WTF is going on here selectiveD?
I think that, at first, the self defense story made sense. Now that it's come to light that he called 911 70ish times, he is what they call a vigilante, meaning he is convinced something has gone wrong in his neighborhood and has been eager to "cure it" for a long time. I think he'll be arrested before April 10 and required to post bail if he is a flight risk. No idea if he has a car or passport or anything.
toybox: If he was standing his ground, the kid would be dead in the street next to his (Zimmerman's) truck where he initially told the police the kid attacked him from behind without provocation... before he changed his story.
So:
"Stand your ground" and "no duty to retreat" mean 'run after someone' to you. At least... it does in certain situations.
I see what situations those are.
Stand your ground still requires self defense, and in this situation he looked like the bigger guy and thenkidnhad skittles and tea.
So:
"Stand your ground" and "no duty to retreat" mean 'run after someone' to you. At least... it does in certain situations.
I see what situations those are.
Stand your ground still requires self defense, and in this situation he looked like the bigger guy and thenkidnhad skittles and tea.
N...the new space bar!
swingingjohnson: Zimmerman is definitely a flight risk. I don't imagine he would be holed up in his house right now with an mob with pitchfork forming.
And the the DA said they will take it to the Grand Jury that form on April 10th to decide if he should be arrested.
WTF is going on here selectiveD?
Oh and a grand jury doesn't decide if ones arrested, they decide if one should be charged and taken to trial. I.e. if there is sufficient evidence to meet the prosecutions prima facie case.
And the the DA said they will take it to the Grand Jury that form on April 10th to decide if he should be arrested.
WTF is going on here selectiveD?
Oh and a grand jury doesn't decide if ones arrested, they decide if one should be charged and taken to trial. I.e. if there is sufficient evidence to meet the prosecutions prima facie case.
selectivedisclosure: Oh and a grand jury doesn't decide if ones arrested, they decide if one should be charged and taken to trial. I.e. if there is sufficient evidence to meet the prosecutions prima facie case.
who decides if an arrest is warranted? is that solely at the arresting cops discretion?
who decides if an arrest is warranted? is that solely at the arresting cops discretion?
burntman: who decides if an arrest is warranted? is that solely at the arresting cops discretion?
Usually an arrest warrant is issued, and a magistrate decides if there is probable cause/enough evidence for the arrest. Then the DA has 72 hours to charge the defendant with a crime, or he has the right to go free. Once he's charged, then the grad jury decides if there is enough evidence to indict and go to trial on the merits.
Usually an arrest warrant is issued, and a magistrate decides if there is probable cause/enough evidence for the arrest. Then the DA has 72 hours to charge the defendant with a crime, or he has the right to go free. Once he's charged, then the grad jury decides if there is enough evidence to indict and go to trial on the merits.
selectivedisclosure: Usually an arrest warrant is issued, and a magistrate decides if there is probable cause/enough evidence for the arrest. Then the DA has 72 hours to charge the defendant with a crime, or he has the right to go free. Once he's charged, then the grad jury decides if there is enough evidence to indict and go to trial on the merits.
In a case like this where the cop on the scene chose not to arrest him, is that decision to detain or not detain up to the cop?
In a case like this where the cop on the scene chose not to arrest him, is that decision to detain or not detain up to the cop?
burntman: In a case like this where the cop on the scene chose not to arrest him, is that decision to detain or not detain up to the cop?
Yeah there are circumstances where a cop can arrest on the spot, obviously. No idea why he didn't detain him right then and there, but he may have been waiting for crime scene to do their analysis of what happened so there was more evidence. Who knows.
Yeah there are circumstances where a cop can arrest on the spot, obviously. No idea why he didn't detain him right then and there, but he may have been waiting for crime scene to do their analysis of what happened so there was more evidence. Who knows.
selectivedisclosure: Yeah there are circumstances where a cop can arrest on the spot, obviously. No idea why he didn't detain him right then and there, but he may have been waiting for crime scene to do their analysis of what happened so there was more evidence. Who knows.
They sent a narcotics detective, not a homicide detective. The investigation is over, and the local PD seems disinclined to pursue it any further, as does the local DA.
They sent a narcotics detective, not a homicide detective. The investigation is over, and the local PD seems disinclined to pursue it any further, as does the local DA.
jimmythehutt: They sent a narcotics detective, not a homicide detective. The investigation is over, and the local PD seems disinclined to pursue it any further, as does the local DA.
Considering the crazy DA offices get in their eyes when media attention is involved, I'm shocked. They tend to over-charge in those situations. For example, charging him with a level of homicide that requires premeditation despite no evidence supporting that. I wonder if they're waiting on voice analysis for the 911 tapes or something??
Considering the crazy DA offices get in their eyes when media attention is involved, I'm shocked. They tend to over-charge in those situations. For example, charging him with a level of homicide that requires premeditation despite no evidence supporting that. I wonder if they're waiting on voice analysis for the 911 tapes or something??
selectivedisclosure: Considering the crazy DA offices get in their eyes when media attention is involved, I'm shocked. They tend to over-charge in those situations. For example, charging him with a level of homicide that requires premeditation despite no evidence supporting that. I wonder if they're waiting on voice analysis for the 911 tapes or something??
FL "Stand Your Ground" law. The local authorities seem to take the shooter at his word and consider the case a matter of self-defense. They didn't really investigate or follow up, and now just clearly wish the thing would go away.
FL "Stand Your Ground" law. The local authorities seem to take the shooter at his word and consider the case a matter of self-defense. They didn't really investigate or follow up, and now just clearly wish the thing would go away.
jimmythehutt: FL "Stand Your Ground" law. The local authorities seem to take the shooter at his word and consider the case a matter of self-defense. They didn't really investigate or follow up, and now just clearly wish the thing would go away.
There's no statute of limitations on murder in Florida, I don't think, so they haven't officially fucked up until they declare no investigation will take place or something. They have time to redeem themselves, and Reverend Jesse Jackson will be making a tv appearance soon, I predict, so we'll see.
There's no statute of limitations on murder in Florida, I don't think, so they haven't officially fucked up until they declare no investigation will take place or something. They have time to redeem themselves, and Reverend Jesse Jackson will be making a tv appearance soon, I predict, so we'll see.
selectivedisclosure: There's no statute of limitations on murder in Florida, I don't think, so they haven't officially fucked up until they declare no investigation will take place or something. They have time to redeem themselves, and Reverend Jesse Jackson will be making a tv appearance soon, I predict, so we'll see.
Al Sharpton has already placed himselfin front of the cameras into the situation.
/I really wish those two would just go away. They do far more harm than good.
Al Sharpton has already placed himself
/I really wish those two would just go away. They do far more harm than good.
intentionally left blank: Al Sharpton has already placed himself in front of the cameras into the situation.
/I really wish those two would just go away. They do far more harm than good.
Welp, the Daily Fail is reporting he can be heard saying "fucking coons," on the 911 tape under his breath so this shit storm just went plaid.
/I really wish those two would just go away. They do far more harm than good.
Welp, the Daily Fail is reporting he can be heard saying "fucking coons," on the 911 tape under his breath so this shit storm just went plaid.
selectivedisclosure: There's no statute of limitations on murder in Florida, I don't think, so they haven't officially fucked up until they declare no investigation will take place or something. They have time to redeem themselves, and Reverend Jesse Jackson will be making a tv appearance soon, I predict, so we'll see.
Al Sharpton. This is more his sort of thing. Looking over things, it looks like the FL State authorities may be conducting an investigation, but that local authorities really don't seem interested in pursuing the matter. The way the FL law is written, it doesn't really give them much leeway. As shitty as this was, thanks to that law, the shooter will likely walk.
Al Sharpton. This is more his sort of thing. Looking over things, it looks like the FL State authorities may be conducting an investigation, but that local authorities really don't seem interested in pursuing the matter. The way the FL law is written, it doesn't really give them much leeway. As shitty as this was, thanks to that law, the shooter will likely walk.
selectivedisclosure: Welp, the Daily Fail is reporting he can be heard saying "fucking coons," on the 911 tape under his breath so this shit storm just went plaid.
Yeah, that'll make this a calm, rational investigation.
If he doesn't get indicted, he'll get the living shit beat out of him.
Yeah, that'll make this a calm, rational investigation.
If he doesn't get indicted, he'll get the living shit beat out of him.
jimmythehutt: Al Sharpton. This is more his sort of thing. Looking over things, it looks like the FL State authorities may be conducting an investigation, but that local authorities really don't seem interested in pursuing the matter. The way the FL law is written, it doesn't really give them much leeway. As shitty as this was, thanks to that law, the shooter will likely walk.
The family wil, file a wrongful death suit, and I'm sure he has no money, so at least he will be imprisoned by his own poverty for the rest of his life, at the very least.
The family wil, file a wrongful death suit, and I'm sure he has no money, so at least he will be imprisoned by his own poverty for the rest of his life, at the very least.
selectivedisclosure: The family wil, file a wrongful death suit, and I'm sure he has no money, so at least he will be imprisoned by his own poverty for the rest of his life, at the very least.
And the law that allows this will never change.
This kind of thing is why, as much as I like my firearms, I LOATHE the NRA.
And the law that allows this will never change.
This kind of thing is why, as much as I like my firearms, I LOATHE the NRA.
intentionally left blank: Al Sharpton has already placed himself in front of the cameras into the situation.
/I really wish those two would just go away. They do far more harm than good.
unfortunatly, due to cases like this, there is still a need for them. They make noise, and draw attention to things, while others could do it better, and less self-servingly, no one else is stepping up to the plate.
/I really wish those two would just go away. They do far more harm than good.
unfortunatly, due to cases like this, there is still a need for them. They make noise, and draw attention to things, while others could do it better, and less self-servingly, no one else is stepping up to the plate.
valaru: unfortunatly, due to cases like this, there is still a need for them. They make noise, and draw attention to things, while others could do it better, and less self-servingly, no one else is stepping up to the plate.
I disagree. They will just turn off people who would be willing to listen before. Tawana Brawley will be brought up by the conservative spinmeisters.
If they were at least honest, I wouldn't mind 'em so much.
I disagree. They will just turn off people who would be willing to listen before. Tawana Brawley will be brought up by the conservative spinmeisters.
If they were at least honest, I wouldn't mind 'em so much.
intentionally left blank:
If they were at least honest, I wouldn't mind 'em so much.
others can do it better, but aren't.
This case did get attention before they showed up, and maybe wouldn't fade away as quickly as some others, so maybe they are NOT needed in this case, but what if the kid was a bad-ass with bad grades? Then without the likes of sharpton and jackson the story would fade away, and one guy might be getting away with murder.
It's sad that a certain group of people must rely on buffoons like this to get justice.
If they were at least honest, I wouldn't mind 'em so much.
others can do it better, but aren't.
This case did get attention before they showed up, and maybe wouldn't fade away as quickly as some others, so maybe they are NOT needed in this case, but what if the kid was a bad-ass with bad grades? Then without the likes of sharpton and jackson the story would fade away, and one guy might be getting away with murder.
It's sad that a certain group of people must rely on buffoons like this to get justice.
valaru: This case did get attention before they showed up, and maybe wouldn't fade away as quickly as some others,
Remember Rodney King? People are distracted by shiny objects. People also don't like ugly truths. I hope this gets the attention it deserves.
Remember Rodney King? People are distracted by shiny objects. People also don't like ugly truths. I hope this gets the attention it deserves.
intentionally left blank: Remember Rodney King? People are distracted by shiny objects. People also don't like ugly truths. I hope this gets the attention it deserves.
they are, but some of use remember stuff, like anthony griffin.
don't know if that ever made the media in the US, teen shot in the back of the head by the police while trying to escape custody....he was handcuffed at the time, but that story faded away within 6 months, with nothing ever done about it.
If we had a loudmouth blowhard bringing it up, maybe the same thing wouldn't have happened again 4 years later.
they are, but some of use remember stuff, like anthony griffin.
don't know if that ever made the media in the US, teen shot in the back of the head by the police while trying to escape custody....he was handcuffed at the time, but that story faded away within 6 months, with nothing ever done about it.
If we had a loudmouth blowhard bringing it up, maybe the same thing wouldn't have happened again 4 years later.
valaru: If we had a loudmouth blowhard bringing it up, maybe the same thing wouldn't have happened again 4 years later.
We'll see. I hope this gets the attention it deserves.
We'll see. I hope this gets the attention it deserves.
valaru: don't know if that ever made the media in the US, teen shot in the back of the head by the police while trying to escape custody....he was handcuffed at the time, but that story faded away within 6 months, with nothing ever done about it.
If we had a loudmouth blowhard bringing it up, maybe the same thing wouldn't have happened again 4 years later.
That kid was shot in the back of the head by police while handcuffed AGAIN? He just has a knack for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
If we had a loudmouth blowhard bringing it up, maybe the same thing wouldn't have happened again 4 years later.
That kid was shot in the back of the head by police while handcuffed AGAIN? He just has a knack for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
sloth: That kid was shot in the back of the head by police while handcuffed AGAIN? He just has a knack for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
yep.
yep.
jimmythehutt: Al Sharpton. This is more his sort of thing.
Really? I don't think I've ever seen Sharpton get involved except in cases where he can blame whitey - blaming Jorge just isn't gonna do it for him, I don't think.
Really? I don't think I've ever seen Sharpton get involved except in cases where he can blame whitey - blaming Jorge just isn't gonna do it for him, I don't think.
selectivedisclosure: Oh and a grand jury doesn't decide if ones arrested, they decide if one should be charged and taken to trial. I.e. if there is sufficient evidence to meet the prosecutions prima facie case.
At a job in the past I had to speak with someone using a TTY machine and they used the period for a space bar. I *think* TTYs show a period as a space so to them it looked fine.
I always assumed their period key was broken but then one day he hit the space bar randomly a few times and I hated that fucker so much.
Having to read outloud blocks of text like this
i.went.to.mcdonalds.why.did.i.ever.do.that.you.sure.are.nice.will.you.come.to.my.house.damn.i.want.some.fish.
UGGH.
At a job in the past I had to speak with someone using a TTY machine and they used the period for a space bar. I *think* TTYs show a period as a space so to them it looked fine.
I always assumed their period key was broken but then one day he hit the space bar randomly a few times and I hated that fucker so much.
Having to read outloud blocks of text like this
i.went.to.mcdonalds.why.did.i.ever.do.that.you.sure.are.nice.will.you.come.to.my.house.damn.i.want.some.fish.
UGGH.
selectivedisclosure: Yeah there are circ*mstances where a cop can arrest on the spot, obviously. No idea why he didn't detain him right then and there, but he may have been waiting for crime scene to do their analysis of what happened so there was more evidence.
Probably this - once the arrest is made, there's a time limit on how long they can hold before charging, and in a case like this they're not sure right away not only whether to charge but also what to charge. As noted WAY up thread, the only real questions in this situation are 1) Was a crime committed? and 2) Which crime?
Probably this - once the arrest is made, there's a time limit on how long they can hold before charging, and in a case like this they're not sure right away not only whether to charge but also what to charge. As noted WAY up thread, the only real questions in this situation are 1) Was a crime committed? and 2) Which crime?
Big, exciting events last night: I upgraded one of my antique computers to a whole 2 Gig of memory! Whoohoo, welcome to 2004!
myinternetname: At a job in the past I had to speak with someone using a TTY machine and they used the period for a space bar. I *think* TTYs show a period as a space so to them it looked fine.
I always assumed their period key was broken but then one day he hit the space bar randomly a few times and I hated that fucker so much.
Having to read outloud blocks of text like this
i.went.to.mcdonalds.why.did.i.ever.do.that.you.sure.are.nice.will.you.come.to.my.house.damn.i.want.some.fish.
UGGH.
Yeah, that was just my silly fingers pressing the n button on my iPad instead of the space bar. Hehe. I make few typos on any device other than an iPad, so I'm not really accustomed to proofing before I submit. Plus, it should have known that was a typo and autocorrected. Useless!
I always assumed their period key was broken but then one day he hit the space bar randomly a few times and I hated that fucker so much.
Having to read outloud blocks of text like this
i.went.to.mcdonalds.why.did.i.ever.do.that.you.sure.are.nice.will.you.come.to.my.house.damn.i.want.some.fish.
UGGH.
Yeah, that was just my silly fingers pressing the n button on my iPad instead of the space bar. Hehe. I make few typos on any device other than an iPad, so I'm not really accustomed to proofing before I submit. Plus, it should have known that was a typo and autocorrected. Useless!
sloth: Probably this - once the arrest is made, there's a time limit on how long they can hold before charging, and in a case like this they're not sure right away not only whether to charge but also what to charge. As noted WAY up thread, the only real questions in this situation are 1) Was a crime committed? and 2) Which crime?
Yeah the DA and cops have to be in sync, so the cops know the DA only has 72 hours to charge before the person is released and like to have enough evidence to avoid having to let them go and heave to track them down again once/if enough evidence is gathered to charge them.
Yeah the DA and cops have to be in sync, so the cops know the DA only has 72 hours to charge before the person is released and like to have enough evidence to avoid having to let them go and heave to track them down again once/if enough evidence is gathered to charge them.
intentionally left blank: Big, exciting events last night: I upgraded one of my antique computers to a whole 2 Gig of memory! Whoohoo, welcome to 2004!
Ooops, not the beer garden.
We apologize for any inconvenience.
Ooops, not the beer garden.
We apologize for any inconvenience.
supergrover: Like I said, there was something played on CBS News that seemed like a call. Not sure how that would have worked, which is why I won't say there was a recording of the call.
One of the articles linked said the back end of the call was recorded. Couldn't find it when I went back to double-check.
One of the articles linked said the back end of the call was recorded. Couldn't find it when I went back to double-check.
sloth: Really? I don't think I've ever seen Sharpton get involved except in cases where he can blame whitey - blaming Jorge just isn't gonna do it for him, I don't think.
He'll go after the police department.
He'll go after the police department.
kang: Who knows, but the fact they are building out a yottabyte level information warehouse would lead me to believe that the question is not what are they recording but what aren't they recording...
The NSA refuted that project. Never Say Anything.
The NSA refuted that project. Never Say Anything.
This whole story is horrific. A grown man chases down a kid on a cell phone because he "looks suspicious", then starts an altercation with the kid and shoots him.
Even if the kid started the altercation, the grown man brought a gun to a fist fight... How is this legal?!
Even if the kid started the altercation, the grown man brought a gun to a fist fight... How is this legal?!
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