Police Chief May Lose Job Over Trayvon Martin Case
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He should.
swingingjohnson: He should.
He wasn't at the scene, did he defend his officers action? I only saw some of his later statements.
He wasn't at the scene, did he defend his officers action? I only saw some of his later statements.
valaru: He wasn't at the scene, did he defend his officers action? I only saw some of his later statements.
A chief is the boss. If he says go find that guy and bring him in, they do.
At the least Zimmerman should have been brought in for questioning after hearing the 911 calls.
I'm not sure of the details but I did read that it was the Sheriff's office that released the tapes. That's not the police dept..
A chief is the boss. If he says go find that guy and bring him in, they do.
At the least Zimmerman should have been brought in for questioning after hearing the 911 calls.
I'm not sure of the details but I did read that it was the Sheriff's office that released the tapes. That's not the police dept..
swingingjohnson: A chief is the boss. If he says go find that guy and bring him in, they do.
At the least Zimmerman should have been brought in for questioning after hearing the 911 calls.
I'm not sure of the details but I did read that it was the Sheriff's office that released the tapes. That's not the police dept..
I am not defending him, just curious if him being fired is the right thing, or a knee-jerk over-reaction to this situation. Or does it stem from more than this (earlier stories point to other problems with the police force)
At the least Zimmerman should have been brought in for questioning after hearing the 911 calls.
I'm not sure of the details but I did read that it was the Sheriff's office that released the tapes. That's not the police dept..
I am not defending him, just curious if him being fired is the right thing, or a knee-jerk over-reaction to this situation. Or does it stem from more than this (earlier stories point to other problems with the police force)
swingingjohnson: A chief is the boss. If he says go find that guy and bring him in, they do.
At the least Zimmerman should have been brought in for questioning after hearing the 911 calls.
I don't think this merits firing him yet.
At the least Zimmerman should have been brought in for questioning after hearing the 911 calls.
I don't think this merits firing him yet.
so vote republican: I don't think this merits firing him yet.
I certainly haven't read anything that warrants it either,
I certainly haven't read anything that warrants it either,
valaru: I am not defending him, just curious if him being fired is the right thing, or a knee-jerk over-reaction to this situation. Or does it stem from more than this (earlier stories point to other problems with the police force)
He was brought in only like ten months or so ago because of the corruption of the former chief. Think firing him in the midst of all this emotion is indeed a kneejerk reaction. There'll be plenty of time for that later, if warranted.
He was brought in only like ten months or so ago because of the corruption of the former chief. Think firing him in the midst of all this emotion is indeed a kneejerk reaction. There'll be plenty of time for that later, if warranted.
valaru: I am not defending him, just curious if him being fired is the right thing, or a knee-jerk over-reaction to this situation. Or does it stem from more than this (earlier stories point to other problems with the police force)
TFA: The Sanford City Commission issued a vote of no confidence for Police Chief Billy Lee during a heated meeting Wednesday night, with three of the panel's five members asking him to step down. It will now be up to the city manager to decide whether Lee keeps his job after the panel characterized his investigation as "deeply flawed."
He might have had other problems for it to come to this.
TFA: The Sanford City Commission issued a vote of no confidence for Police Chief Billy Lee during a heated meeting Wednesday night, with three of the panel's five members asking him to step down. It will now be up to the city manager to decide whether Lee keeps his job after the panel characterized his investigation as "deeply flawed."
He might have had other problems for it to come to this.
swingingjohnson: He should.
Why?
The police aren't generally allowed to arrest you for something like this until they finish their investigation.
If they do arrest before they investigate, they open themselves up to lawsuits.
Don't you think they should be allowed to finish the investigation? Also, the police wouldn't be the ones issueing the arrest warrant, that would be the DA.
Why?
The police aren't generally allowed to arrest you for something like this until they finish their investigation.
If they do arrest before they investigate, they open themselves up to lawsuits.
Don't you think they should be allowed to finish the investigation? Also, the police wouldn't be the ones issueing the arrest warrant, that would be the DA.
I'd be more concerned about who made the call not to bring Zimmerman in.
finnley wren: He was brought in only like ten months or so ago because of the corruption of the former chief. Think firing him in the midst of all this emotion is indeed a kneejerk reaction. There'll be plenty of time for that later, if warranted.
So maybe he's not really qualified to be chief in that city.
So maybe he's not really qualified to be chief in that city.
So they bring in a new chief, a cop fucks up, and it goes national, and the town council trying to make themselves look good pull a fast one, trying to cover up the fact that they are useless.
swingingjohnson: A chief is the boss. If he says go find that guy and bring him in, they do.
At the least Zimmerman should have been brought in for questioning after hearing the 911 calls.
I'm not sure of the details but I did read that it was the Sheriff's office that released the tapes. That's not the police dept..
They did bring him in for questioning. At this time, what could they arrest him for? Remember the murder investigation is still ongoing.
At the least Zimmerman should have been brought in for questioning after hearing the 911 calls.
I'm not sure of the details but I did read that it was the Sheriff's office that released the tapes. That's not the police dept..
They did bring him in for questioning. At this time, what could they arrest him for? Remember the murder investigation is still ongoing.
swingingjohnson: So maybe he's not really qualified to be chief in that city.
Maybe not. Time, and only time, will tell.
Maybe not. Time, and only time, will tell.
valaru: So they bring in a new chief, a cop fucks up, and it goes national, and the town council trying to make themselves look good pull a fast one, trying to cover up the fact that they are useless.
It's actually up to the City Manager, who has been pretty rational about the whole mess. I saw him handle himself well in some pretty confrontational interviews last night.
It's actually up to the City Manager, who has been pretty rational about the whole mess. I saw him handle himself well in some pretty confrontational interviews last night.
valaru: I am not defending him, just curious if him being fired is the right thing, or a knee-jerk over-reaction to this situation. Or does it stem from more than this (earlier stories point to other problems with the police force)
That's what they could fire him for, but not for the DA not issuing an arrest warrant.
That's what they could fire him for, but not for the DA not issuing an arrest warrant.
flashlv: That's what they could fire him for, but not for the DA not issuing an arrest warrant.
I was wondering if a firing was warranted at all.
looks like maybe not for THIS situation.
If he does get fired, I am guessing we might see a lawsuit for wrongful dismissal.
I was wondering if a firing was warranted at all.
looks like maybe not for THIS situation.
If he does get fired, I am guessing we might see a lawsuit for wrongful dismissal.
valaru: I was wondering if a firing was warranted at all.
looks like maybe not for THIS situation.
If he does get fired, I am guessing we might see a lawsuit for wrongful dismissal.
Florida is a right to work state. They can let him go for any reason or no reason at all.
looks like maybe not for THIS situation.
If he does get fired, I am guessing we might see a lawsuit for wrongful dismissal.
Florida is a right to work state. They can let him go for any reason or no reason at all.
osirisothedead: Florida is a right to work state. They can let him go for any reason or no reason at all.
I don't think I will ever understand American laws.
you have to pay for healthcare, you can be fired for no reason...
but that's another thread.
I don't think I will ever understand American laws.
you have to pay for healthcare, you can be fired for no reason...
but that's another thread.
osirisothedead: Florida is a right to work state. They can let him go for any reason or no reason at all.
The police in Florida are as unionized as anywhere.
The police in Florida are as unionized as anywhere.
valaru: I was wondering if a firing was warranted at all.
looks like maybe not for THIS situation.
If he does get fired, I am guessing we might see a lawsuit for wrongful dismissal.
Yeah, and I don't want to see a firing just because of public outrage.
The grand jury will decide if there is enough evidence for an arrest and this to go to trial.
looks like maybe not for THIS situation.
If he does get fired, I am guessing we might see a lawsuit for wrongful dismissal.
Yeah, and I don't want to see a firing just because of public outrage.
The grand jury will decide if there is enough evidence for an arrest and this to go to trial.
osirisothedead: Florida is a right to work state. They can let him go for any reason or no reason at all.
That's not true at all.
That's not true at all.
flashlv: Yeah, and I don't want to see a firing just because of public outrage.
public outrage for something he was not even present for, so it all depends how he handled it after it came across his desk.
public outrage for something he was not even present for, so it all depends how he handled it after it came across his desk.
A right to work state means you don't have to join a union to work in a union shop.
They can't fire you because you have blond hair.
They can't fire you because you have blond hair.
SJ is right. This guy looks suspicious. These assholes, they always get away with it.
finnley wren: The police in Florida are as unionized as anywhere.
Sometimes more so.
Thousands of Florida officers remain on the job despite arrests or evidence implicating them in crimes that could have landed them in prison, a Herald-Tribune investigation has found.
Even those officers with multiple offenses have been given chance after chance through a disciplinary system that has been reshaped in their favor by the state's politically influential police unions. As a result, officers around Florida carry personnel files that are anything but heroic.
Corrections officer Kurt Stout, already dogged by allegations he groped and had sex with prisoners, was arrested on allegations he raped two teenage girls. Nick Viaggio capped a string of violent outbursts at the Ocala Police Department by attacking his girlfriend in a crowded nightclub until bouncers dragged him away. Palm Beach County deputy Craig Knowles-Hiller, under investigation for sleeping with a 14-year old, had to explain why the girl's DNA was found on one of his sex toys.
In each case, state law enforcement officials let the men keep their badges.
Sometimes more so.
Thousands of Florida officers remain on the job despite arrests or evidence implicating them in crimes that could have landed them in prison, a Herald-Tribune investigation has found.
Even those officers with multiple offenses have been given chance after chance through a disciplinary system that has been reshaped in their favor by the state's politically influential police unions. As a result, officers around Florida carry personnel files that are anything but heroic.
Corrections officer Kurt Stout, already dogged by allegations he groped and had sex with prisoners, was arrested on allegations he raped two teenage girls. Nick Viaggio capped a string of violent outbursts at the Ocala Police Department by attacking his girlfriend in a crowded nightclub until bouncers dragged him away. Palm Beach County deputy Craig Knowles-Hiller, under investigation for sleeping with a 14-year old, had to explain why the girl's DNA was found on one of his sex toys.
In each case, state law enforcement officials let the men keep their badges.
valaru: public outrage for something he was not even present for, so it all depends how he handled it after it came across his desk.
The case is in such flux and hot that it's hard to google for anything more than a day old, but I thought I had read somethings that Lee had stated regarding Zimmerman being clean and no investigation was going to be forthcoming or something to the effect. No, Flash, I am not stating this is the case. I seem to recall it this way and attempted, unsuccessfully, to cite it. Since I cannot cite, I shan't provide attempts at specifics. It seems he might have represented the department poorly and not exercised oversight at things missed (such as no drug or alcohol test performed on Zimmerman the night of the shooting).
The case is in such flux and hot that it's hard to google for anything more than a day old, but I thought I had read somethings that Lee had stated regarding Zimmerman being clean and no investigation was going to be forthcoming or something to the effect. No, Flash, I am not stating this is the case. I seem to recall it this way and attempted, unsuccessfully, to cite it. Since I cannot cite, I shan't provide attempts at specifics. It seems he might have represented the department poorly and not exercised oversight at things missed (such as no drug or alcohol test performed on Zimmerman the night of the shooting).
well since you all won't do the research for me...
The chief stated there was no evidence to say it wasn't self defense...even though the victim was unarmed and was outweighed by the armed attacker.
Police under him lied to people about zimmerman's police record, there is no mention of him ever correcting this fact.
There was no action from his office until this became a media storm.
Looks like he was not pro-active at the least, and maybe trying too cover-up at the worst, either for me would be cause to be removed from such a position.
The chief stated there was no evidence to say it wasn't self defense...even though the victim was unarmed and was outweighed by the armed attacker.
Police under him lied to people about zimmerman's police record, there is no mention of him ever correcting this fact.
There was no action from his office until this became a media storm.
Looks like he was not pro-active at the least, and maybe trying too cover-up at the worst, either for me would be cause to be removed from such a position.
flashlv: Why?
The police aren't generally allowed to arrest you for something like this until they finish their investigation.
I don't think so Flash.
They don't even know where he is right now.
This ain't a case of bouncing a check.
The police aren't generally allowed to arrest you for something like this until they finish their investigation.
I don't think so Flash.
They don't even know where he is right now.
This ain't a case of bouncing a check.
myinternetname: Where is the outrage, where are the marches?
Agreed. The egregious changes to their privacy policy certainly warrants such action.
Agreed. The egregious changes to their privacy policy certainly warrants such action.
finnley wren: Agreed. The egregious changes to their privacy policy certainly warrants such action.
and the first person shooter games sold on black friday is in ridiculous amounts
and the first person shooter games sold on black friday is in ridiculous amounts
valaru: well since you all won't do the research for me...
Not sure if snark, or yer bein' a dick...
The chief stated there was no evidence to say it wasn't self defense...even though the victim was unarmed and was outweighed by the armed attacker.
Police under him lied to people about zimmerman's police record, there is no mention of him ever correcting this fact.
There was no action from his office until this became a media storm.
Looks like he was not pro-active at the least, and maybe trying too cover-up at the worst, either for me would be cause to be removed from such a position.
Plus he is the head of the organization. Sometimes the axe falls at the top.
Not sure if snark, or yer bein' a dick...
The chief stated there was no evidence to say it wasn't self defense...even though the victim was unarmed and was outweighed by the armed attacker.
Police under him lied to people about zimmerman's police record, there is no mention of him ever correcting this fact.
There was no action from his office until this became a media storm.
Looks like he was not pro-active at the least, and maybe trying too cover-up at the worst, either for me would be cause to be removed from such a position.
Plus he is the head of the organization. Sometimes the axe falls at the top.
valaru:
There was no action from his office until this became a media storm.
The whole thing reeks. No detailed investigation in a case where no crime had been committed until the shooter got involved, yet he gets off on his own word. The officers on scene (don't know if included Lee) "correcting" witnesses statements.
There was no action from his office until this became a media storm.
The whole thing reeks. No detailed investigation in a case where no crime had been committed until the shooter got involved, yet he gets off on his own word. The officers on scene (don't know if included Lee) "correcting" witnesses statements.
finnley wren: Agreed. The egregious changes to their privacy policy certainly warrants such action.
lmao
lmao
supergrover: Not sure if snark, or yer bein' a dick...
Plus he is the head of the organization. Sometimes the axe falls at the top.
pure snark, and yes, the top gets it, the question in my mind was there enough time for him to handle the situation, but it's been a month, and it looks like he sat on his hands for a few weeks, I was unclear on the timeline.
If he had immediately reacted, and it just wasn't resolved yet it would be one thing, but her reacted way to late, and only after outside pressures came to bear.
Plus he is the head of the organization. Sometimes the axe falls at the top.
pure snark, and yes, the top gets it, the question in my mind was there enough time for him to handle the situation, but it's been a month, and it looks like he sat on his hands for a few weeks, I was unclear on the timeline.
If he had immediately reacted, and it just wasn't resolved yet it would be one thing, but her reacted way to late, and only after outside pressures came to bear.
interesting, now even the authors of the Florida self-defense law think that Zimmerman should be charged. Looks like it's pretty much inevitable at this point.
willywanka: interesting, now even the authors of the Florida self-defense law think that Zimmerman should be charged. Looks like it's pretty much inevitable at this point.
Now all we need to wait for is for flash to tell us he knows better than the guys who wrote the law what it means. LOL.
Now all we need to wait for is for flash to tell us he knows better than the guys who wrote the law what it means. LOL.
supergrover: and the first person shooter games sold on black friday is in ridiculous amounts
Yeah, I don't even get what sort of connection he is trying to make.
Yeah, I don't even get what sort of connection he is trying to make.
It appears to me that the chief made the decision, like flashlv, that the shooting was justified under Florida's stand your ground law. Of course the facts start coming out and, like flashlv's, it appears that the Chief's initial read was not only wrong, but it appears he may have been trying to change the reality of what happened.
osirisothedead: The Million Strawman March!
WTF is he even talking about?
The shootings in france? Are they connected to Zimmerman also?
/wouldn't be surprised...
WTF is he even talking about?
The shootings in france? Are they connected to Zimmerman also?
/wouldn't be surprised...
valaru: So they bring in a new chief, a cop fucks up, and it goes national, and the town council trying to make themselves look good pull a fast one, trying to cover up the fact that they are useless.
Except it was not a an actual "cop" that fucked up. It was some "neighborhood watch captain" (who prolly wanted to be cop and was deemed unqualified, but just guessing)
I don't think the Chief has any jurisdiction as an employer over the Watch Captain, only as a private citizen.
Except it was not a an actual "cop" that fucked up. It was some "neighborhood watch captain" (who prolly wanted to be cop and was deemed unqualified, but just guessing)
I don't think the Chief has any jurisdiction as an employer over the Watch Captain, only as a private citizen.
little hands of concrete: It appears to me that the chief made the decision, like flashlv, that the shooting was justified under Florida's stand your ground law. Of course the facts start coming out and, like flashlv's, it appears that the Chief's initial read was not only wrong, but it appears he may have been trying to change the reality of what happened.
I C wut U Did there
I C wut U Did there
the sonic dildo: Except it was not a an actual "cop" that fucked up. It was some "neighborhood watch captain" (who prolly wanted to be cop and was deemed unqualified, but just guessing)
I don't think the Chief has any jurisdiction as an employer over the Watch Captain, only as a private citizen.
the watch captain was the shooter, the cop was the one who just decided to take him at his work with no investigation, then he, or another police officer lied about arrest records.
I don't think the Chief has any jurisdiction as an employer over the Watch Captain, only as a private citizen.
the watch captain was the shooter, the cop was the one who just decided to take him at his work with no investigation, then he, or another police officer lied about arrest records.
the sonic dildo: I don't think the Chief has any jurisdiction as an employer over the Watch Captain, only as a private citizen.
Don't give me that juris-my-dick-tion crap.
Don't give me that juris-my-dick-tion crap.
valaru: the watch captain was the shooter, the cop was the one who just decided to take him at his work with no investigation, then he, or another police officer lied about arrest records.
Not sure if anyone lied about arrest records. Arrest records are on the inter-tubes.
Not sure if anyone lied about arrest records. Arrest records are on the inter-tubes.
so vote republican: Not sure if anyone lied about arrest records. Arrest records are on the inter-tubes.
they said that zimmerman's record was squeaky clean, when in fact he has some battery charges, etc.
they said that zimmerman's record was squeaky clean, when in fact he has some battery charges, etc.
osirisothedead: Florida is a right to work state. They can let him go for any reason or no reason at all.
Don't make me smack you for that meaningless word-salad.
Don't make me smack you for that meaningless word-salad.
valaru: they said that zimmerman's record was squeaky clean, when in fact he has some battery charges, etc.
Who said that? I hate to say it, but "source?!!?"
I'm not sure police officers are in charge of reporting on anyone's records, squeaky or not. That would be an administrative job.
Who said that? I hate to say it, but "source?!!?"
I'm not sure police officers are in charge of reporting on anyone's records, squeaky or not. That would be an administrative job.
willywanka: interesting, now even the authors of the Florida self-defense law think that Zimmerman should be charged. Looks like it's pretty much inevitable at this point.
They may be throwing him to the mob as appeasement, to protect their precious law.
\or not
They may be throwing him to the mob as appeasement, to protect their precious law.
\or not
so vote republican: Who said that? I hate to say it, but "source?!!?"
I'm not sure police officers are in charge of reporting on anyone's records, squeaky or not. That would be an administrative job.
"Lee publically admitted that officers accepted Zimmerman's word at the scene that he had no police record.
Two days later during a meeting with Trayvon's father Tracy Martin, an officer told the father that Zimmerman's record was 'squeaky clean.'"
http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-watch-shooting-trayvon-martin-probe-reveals-questionable/story?id=15907136#.T2tjRBEgfY8
I'm not sure police officers are in charge of reporting on anyone's records, squeaky or not. That would be an administrative job.
"Lee publically admitted that officers accepted Zimmerman's word at the scene that he had no police record.
Two days later during a meeting with Trayvon's father Tracy Martin, an officer told the father that Zimmerman's record was 'squeaky clean.'"
http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-watch-shooting-trayvon-martin-probe-reveals-questionable/story?id=15907136#.T2tjRBEgfY8
valaru: they said that zimmerman's record was squeaky clean, when in fact he has some battery charges, etc.
I think that had been expunged or something, didn't it? Either way, the investigating officer took Zimmerman at his word on everything, it seems. Witness testimony didn't entirely jibe, like Zimmerman claiming he was jumped behind his car. [If he was jumped behind the car, then Zimmerman continued the engagement instead of taking the first out. If it didn't start there, it's because Zimmerman initiated the engagement by pursuit (which means Martin has every right to defend hisself as well, flash's logic be damned)]
I think that had been expunged or something, didn't it? Either way, the investigating officer took Zimmerman at his word on everything, it seems. Witness testimony didn't entirely jibe, like Zimmerman claiming he was jumped behind his car. [If he was jumped behind the car, then Zimmerman continued the engagement instead of taking the first out. If it didn't start there, it's because Zimmerman initiated the engagement by pursuit (which means Martin has every right to defend hisself as well, flash's logic be damned)]
supergrover: I think that had been expunged or something, didn't it? Either way, the investigating officer took Zimmerman at his word on everything, it seems. Witness testimony didn't entirely jibe, like Zimmerman claiming he was jumped behind his car. [If he was jumped behind the car, then Zimmerman continued the engagement instead of taking the first out. If it didn't start there, it's because Zimmerman initiated the engagement by pursuit (which means Martin has every right to defend hisself as well, flash's logic be damned)]
Yeah, I miss the expunged part, which means he didn't have a record.
still...squeaky clean..
Yeah, I miss the expunged part, which means he didn't have a record.
still...squeaky clean..
roughmarble: They may be throwing him to the mob as appeasement, to protect their precious law.
or not
Scary possibility, but a possibility none the less...
or not
Scary possibility, but a possibility none the less...
valaru: the watch captain was the shooter, the cop was the one who just decided to take him at his work with no investigation, then he, or another police officer lied about arrest records.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Now I see. There were arrest records on Zimmerman?
What'd he do?
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Now I see. There were arrest records on Zimmerman?
What'd he do?
the sonic dildo: Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Now I see. There were arrest records on Zimmerman?
What'd he do?
It was expunged, but the charge was assaulting a police officer.
i think
What'd he do?
It was expunged, but the charge was assaulting a police officer.
i think
supergrover: I think that had been expunged or something, didn't it? Either way, the investigating officer took Zimmerman at his word on everything, it seems. Witness testimony didn't entirely jibe, like Zimmerman claiming he was jumped behind his car. [If he was jumped behind the car, then Zimmerman continued the engagement instead of taking the first out. If it didn't start there, it's because Zimmerman initiated the engagement by pursuit (which means Martin has every right to defend hisself as well, flash's logic be damned)]
I read that the charges were eventually dropped, not that it was actually expunged, which is a lengthy and costly procedure...
I read that the charges were eventually dropped, not that it was actually expunged, which is a lengthy and costly procedure...
valaru: It was expunged, but the charge was assaulting a police officer.
i think
Interesting. Am I going out on a limb saying this Zimmerman guy has "issues"?
i think
Interesting. Am I going out on a limb saying this Zimmerman guy has "issues"?
the sonic dildo: Interesting. Am I going out on a limb saying this Zimmerman guy has "issues"?
called 911 46 times since 2001 to report "suspicious people" in his neibourhood.
Self appointed watch captain.
called 911 46 times since 2001 to report "suspicious people" in his neibourhood.
Self appointed watch captain.
valaru: called 911 46 times since 2001 to report "suspicious people" in his neibourhood.
Self appointed watch captain.
Wow. Self appointed watch captain with no one under him?
Self appointed watch captain.
Wow. Self appointed watch captain with no one under him?
the sonic dildo: Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Now I see. There were arrest records on Zimmerman?
What'd he do?
I think a buddy of his was being arrested and he intervened in some fashion. (Not really assaulting an officer, more like pushing the wrists or something...)
What'd he do?
I think a buddy of his was being arrested and he intervened in some fashion. (Not really assaulting an officer, more like pushing the wrists or something...)
little hands of concrete: It appears to me that the chief made the decision, like flashlv, that the shooting was justified under Florida's stand your ground law. Of course the facts start coming out and, like flashlv's, it appears that the Chief's initial read was not only wrong, but it appears he may have been trying to change the reality of what happened.
change the reality of what happened?? Beahaha
change the reality of what happened?? Beahaha
the sonic dildo: Interesting. Am I going out on a limb saying this Zimmerman guy has "issues"?
I think we all agree with that, so let's arrest him for that.
I think we all agree with that, so let's arrest him for that.
valaru: the watch captain was the shooter, the cop was the one who just decided to take him at his work with no investigation, then he, or another police officer lied about arrest records.
No investigation? I don't think that's the case since there is one going on now.
Also, the police do NOT determine if someone is arrested or charged with murder :/
the police pass that info to the DA, they decide if someone should be arrested.
No investigation? I don't think that's the case since there is one going on now.
Also, the police do NOT determine if someone is arrested or charged with murder :/
the police pass that info to the DA, they decide if someone should be arrested.
flashlv: I think we all agree with that, so let's arrest him for that.
Well since one of the issues is he shot a unarmed teenager after pursuing him, yes, lets.
Well since one of the issues is he shot a unarmed teenager after pursuing him, yes, lets.
flashlv: No investigation? I don't think that's the case since there is one going on now.
Also, the police do NOT determine if someone is arrested or charged with murder :/
the police pass that info to the DA, they decide if someone should be arrested.
unless they, you know, come across a guy holding a smoking gun.
Also, the police do NOT determine if someone is arrested or charged with murder :/
the police pass that info to the DA, they decide if someone should be arrested.
unless they, you know, come across a guy holding a smoking gun.
valaru: unless they, you know, come across a guy holding a smoking gun.
The police still don't do that. They never arrest someone for murder unless the DA says so.
Some states it could be someone besides the DA, just not the police.
The police still don't do that. They never arrest someone for murder unless the DA says so.
Some states it could be someone besides the DA, just not the police.
surfnazi: Well since one of the issues is he shot a unarmed teenager after pursuing him, yes, lets.
*facepalm *
*facepalm *
flashlv: The police still don't do that. They never arrest someone for murder unless the DA says so.
Some states it could be someone besides the DA, just not the police.
so the police witness a crime, let's say someone killing someone else, they do nothing?
Some states it could be someone besides the DA, just not the police.
so the police witness a crime, let's say someone killing someone else, they do nothing?
valaru: unless they, you know, come across a guy holding a smoking gun.
It's usually the case that they take the weapon away during the investigation that wasn't going to happen (no matter how much Flash asserts that it is happening now, he won't acknowledge anything in between that CHANGED circumstances of that sittyashun).
It's usually the case that they take the weapon away during the investigation that wasn't going to happen (no matter how much Flash asserts that it is happening now, he won't acknowledge anything in between that CHANGED circumstances of that sittyashun).
valaru: so the police witness a crime, let's say someone killing someone else, they do nothing?
Did I say that???
Did I say that???
flashlv: The police still don't do that. They never arrest someone for murder unless the DA says so.
Some states it could be someone besides the DA, just not the police.
I think you're picking a nit. How about "take into custody", then? Tell me, flash, if the police can't prevent an arrest... how does the DA get the information on which to base an arrest. I'm not sure how that works, it seems.
Some states it could be someone besides the DA, just not the police.
I think you're picking a nit. How about "take into custody", then? Tell me, flash, if the police can't prevent an arrest... how does the DA get the information on which to base an arrest. I'm not sure how that works, it seems.
Evalaru: "Lee publically admitted that officers accepted Zimmerman's word at the scene that he had no police record.
Two days later during a meeting with Trayvon's father Tracy Martin, an officer told the father that Zimmerman's record was 'squeaky clean.'"
http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-watch-shooting-trayvon-martin-probe-reveals-questionable/story?id=15907136#.T2tjRBEgfY8
Thanks. That officer is certainly out of line.
Two days later during a meeting with Trayvon's father Tracy Martin, an officer told the father that Zimmerman's record was 'squeaky clean.'"
http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-watch-shooting-trayvon-martin-probe-reveals-questionable/story?id=15907136#.T2tjRBEgfY8
Thanks. That officer is certainly out of line.
the sonic dildo: To Zimmerman?
No way.
Sorry. It was an unfair jab at you. Sympathetic as the resident don quixote.
No way.
Sorry. It was an unfair jab at you. Sympathetic as the resident don quixote.
supergrover: I think you're picking a nit. How about "take into custody", then? Tell me, flash, if the police can't prevent an arrest... how does the DA get the information on which to base an arrest. I'm not sure how that works, it seems.
They take into custody, yes.
Also, they can arrest for suspicion of murder if they see it happen.
If they don't see it happen, they can collect the evidence and present to the DA and ask for an arrest warrant.
They take into custody, yes.
Also, they can arrest for suspicion of murder if they see it happen.
If they don't see it happen, they can collect the evidence and present to the DA and ask for an arrest warrant.
flashlv: They take into custody, yes.
Also, they can arrest for suspicion of murder if they see it happen.
If they don't see it happen, they can collect the evidence and present to the DA and ask for an arrest warrant.
Well, the don't doubt that Zimmerman shot him. They don't need to see it happen, in this case. I'm doubtful that most get to say "he attacked me" and then get the okie dokie to mosey along. I recognize that Zimmerman has a friendly history with the police and they probably don't see him as a threat, but I think not taking the weapon is wrong and not following guidelines/operating procedures is also wrong.
Was he taken into custody? (I honestly don't know if he even had to go in to be interviewed or if it was done on scene)
Do you acknowledge that he lied to police, at least twice?
Also, they can arrest for suspicion of murder if they see it happen.
If they don't see it happen, they can collect the evidence and present to the DA and ask for an arrest warrant.
Well, the don't doubt that Zimmerman shot him. They don't need to see it happen, in this case. I'm doubtful that most get to say "he attacked me" and then get the okie dokie to mosey along. I recognize that Zimmerman has a friendly history with the police and they probably don't see him as a threat, but I think not taking the weapon is wrong and not following guidelines/operating procedures is also wrong.
Was he taken into custody? (I honestly don't know if he even had to go in to be interviewed or if it was done on scene)
Do you acknowledge that he lied to police, at least twice?
supergrover:
Was he taken into custody?
my understanding is, he said self defense, and was sent on his way.
Was he taken into custody?
my understanding is, he said self defense, and was sent on his way.
valaru: my understanding is, he said self defense, and was sent on his way.
That's what I was led to believe, but nobody directly said "he was not put in a cop car" or "he did not go to the station". I know sometimes they will allow the person to take care of something and come in to the station, but not under violent crimes. "I didn't do it" or "He made me do it" (when nobody can corroborate) also tends NOT to be good enough for most suspects.
That's what I was led to believe, but nobody directly said "he was not put in a cop car" or "he did not go to the station". I know sometimes they will allow the person to take care of something and come in to the station, but not under violent crimes. "I didn't do it" or "He made me do it" (when nobody can corroborate) also tends NOT to be good enough for most suspects.
supergrover: Do you acknowledge that he lied to police, at least twice?
He actually probably believes he was attacked and acted in self-defense.
He actually probably believes he was attacked and acted in self-defense.
Ksupergrover: Well, the don't doubt that Zimmerman shot him. They don't need to see it happen, in this case. I'm doubtful that most get to say "he attacked me" and then get the okie dokie to mosey along. I recognize that Zimmerman has a friendly history with the police and they probably don't see him as a threat, but I think not taking the weapon is wrong and not following guidelines/operating procedures is also wrong.
Was he taken into custody? (I honestly don't know if he even had to go in to be interviewed or if it was done on scene)
Do you acknowledge that he lied to police, at least twice?
When did he lie?
I heard he switched his story once or more.
Was he taken into custody? (I honestly don't know if he even had to go in to be interviewed or if it was done on scene)
Do you acknowledge that he lied to police, at least twice?
When did he lie?
I heard he switched his story once or more.
sloth: He actually probably believes he was attacked and acted in self-defense.
He claims he was blindsided while walking back to his car from reading a street name sign.
He also claimed to have a squeaky clean police record.
He claims he was blindsided while walking back to his car from reading a street name sign.
He also claimed to have a squeaky clean police record.
valaru: my understanding is, he said self defense, and was sent on his way.
No, that's not even close to what happened.
No, that's not even close to what happened.
sloth: He actually probably believes he was attacked and acted in self-defense.
That's what I think as well.
They need to prove his state of mind.
That's what I think as well.
They need to prove his state of mind.
flashlv: No, that's not even close to what happened.
This is the shit I groused about. You have a wonderful opportunity to add to the conversation, but all you do is throw out a little contrarian line. You could have actually said what you believe (or know) to have happened. But you didn't. It's not like you are being succinct while still contributing, just contrarian.
This is the shit I groused about. You have a wonderful opportunity to add to the conversation, but all you do is throw out a little contrarian line. You could have actually said what you believe (or know) to have happened. But you didn't. It's not like you are being succinct while still contributing, just contrarian.
flashlv: That's what I think as well.
They need to prove his state of mind.
or he needs to prove his.
They need to prove his state of mind.
or he needs to prove his.
sloth: He actually probably believes he was attacked and acted in self-defense.
I'm not one of those who think he set out to kill someone that evening. I also don't think he said "f*cking coons" on the 911 call either. I do think that chasing someone who has posed no threat and is not in the immediate commission of a crime is not a good reason to chase. I do think that the kid, being stalked by some dude in a car as he is walking, had just reason to run and, if run down or pinned, had just reason to fight this unknown aggressor. Zimmerman, I think, caused any confrontation by his action and should not qualify under this Stand Your Ground law, regardless of what Flash says. Whether he gets away with it because of shitty law writing or not is another matter. The authors of the law think he isn't deserving.
I'm not one of those who think he set out to kill someone that evening. I also don't think he said "f*cking coons" on the 911 call either. I do think that chasing someone who has posed no threat and is not in the immediate commission of a crime is not a good reason to chase. I do think that the kid, being stalked by some dude in a car as he is walking, had just reason to run and, if run down or pinned, had just reason to fight this unknown aggressor. Zimmerman, I think, caused any confrontation by his action and should not qualify under this Stand Your Ground law, regardless of what Flash says. Whether he gets away with it because of shitty law writing or not is another matter. The authors of the law think he isn't deserving.
supergrover: This is the shit I groused about. You have a wonderful opportunity to add to the conversation, but all you do is throw out a little contrarian line. You could have actually said what you believe (or know) to have happened. But you didn't. It's not like you are being succinct while still contributing, just contrarian.
I was getting to that, and you whining doesn't help.
No one believes the cops asked him a few questions and let him go on his way.
They confirmed his ID , took his info down and probably took him to the station and questioned him. Or at least they got all the info needed to start an investigation.
Does that help your whining?
I was getting to that, and you whining doesn't help.
No one believes the cops asked him a few questions and let him go on his way.
They confirmed his ID , took his info down and probably took him to the station and questioned him. Or at least they got all the info needed to start an investigation.
Does that help your whining?
supergrover: He claims he was blindsided while walking back to his car from reading a street name sign.
Several of the witnesses interviewed actually corroborate that he was blindsided, and the kid was on top of him, beating him, just before the shot. What this ignores (because the witnesses couldn't have seen it) is the stalking beforehand by Zimmerman.
supergrover: He also claimed to have a squeaky clean police record.
I haven't seen anything to dispute that, actually. If you are charged with something, and the charges are dropped, you do actually have a clean record. There are legitimate issues to have with his story, this really doesn't seem to be one of them. The big elephant in the room is that he took the law into his own hands, and backed someone into a corner when that person didn't deserve it and he wasn't equipped to deal with the situation.
Several of the witnesses interviewed actually corroborate that he was blindsided, and the kid was on top of him, beating him, just before the shot. What this ignores (because the witnesses couldn't have seen it) is the stalking beforehand by Zimmerman.
supergrover: He also claimed to have a squeaky clean police record.
I haven't seen anything to dispute that, actually. If you are charged with something, and the charges are dropped, you do actually have a clean record. There are legitimate issues to have with his story, this really doesn't seem to be one of them. The big elephant in the room is that he took the law into his own hands, and backed someone into a corner when that person didn't deserve it and he wasn't equipped to deal with the situation.
supergrover: I'm not one of those who think he set out to kill someone that evening. I also don't think he said "f*cking coons" on the 911 call either. I do think that chasing someone who has posed no threat and is not in the immediate commission of a crime is not a good reason to chase. I do think that the kid, being stalked by some dude in a car as he is walking, had just reason to run and, if run down or pinned, had just reason to fight this unknown aggressor. Zimmerman, I think, caused any confrontation by his action and should not qualify under this Stand Your Ground law, regardless of what Flash says. Whether he gets away with it because of shitty law writing or not is another matter. The authors of the law think he isn't deserving.
I have followed kids in the neighborhood who were acting suspicious before, they kept walking and I followed till they were far away.
I was not stalking and well within my rights to follow and didn't care if they felt uncomfortable.
I have followed kids in the neighborhood who were acting suspicious before, they kept walking and I followed till they were far away.
I was not stalking and well within my rights to follow and didn't care if they felt uncomfortable.
sloth: Several of the witnesses interviewed actually corroborate that he was blindsided, and the kid was on top of him, beating him, just before the shot. What this ignores (because the witnesses couldn't have seen it) is the stalking beforehand by Zimmerman.
I haven't seen anything to dispute that, actually. If you are charged with something, and the charges are dropped, you do actually have a clean record. There are legitimate issues to have with his story, this really doesn't seem to be one of them. The big elephant in the room is that he took the law into his own hands, and backed someone into a corner when that person didn't deserve it and he wasn't equipped to deal with the situation.
sloth, if the kid was on top of him, that is justification for self defense.
I didn't hear about that, and if true, others here need to see that.
I haven't seen anything to dispute that, actually. If you are charged with something, and the charges are dropped, you do actually have a clean record. There are legitimate issues to have with his story, this really doesn't seem to be one of them. The big elephant in the room is that he took the law into his own hands, and backed someone into a corner when that person didn't deserve it and he wasn't equipped to deal with the situation.
sloth, if the kid was on top of him, that is justification for self defense.
I didn't hear about that, and if true, others here need to see that.
flashlv: I have followed kids in the neighborhood who were acting suspicious before, they kept walking and I followed till they were far away.
I was not stalking and well within my rights to follow and didn't care if they felt uncomfortable.
They didn't want any free candy?
I was not stalking and well within my rights to follow and didn't care if they felt uncomfortable.
They didn't want any free candy?
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