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  • Drill, Baby, Drill has little effect on gas prices.



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    fatsean 3838 2012-03-23 07:27:03.0 login to vote score 1
    I've read that the producers are shutting down refineries due to lack of demand. They can't run two efficiently, so they shut down one...but the remaining refinery can't quite keep up with demand.
    pxsteel 2504 2012-03-23 07:29:25.0 login to vote score 3

    If more drilling (supply) does not drop gas prices then conservation (supply) will not drop gas prices.

    supply being more than demand will cause gas prices to go down. No matter how it is done.
    fatsean 3838 2012-03-23 07:34:40.0 login to vote score 2
    pxsteel: If more drilling (supply) does not drop gas prices then conservation (supply) will not drop gas prices.

    supply being more than demand will cause gas prices to go down. No matter how it is done.


    I think you are over-simplifying the situation. Oil is a commodity but the availability of the various grades of oil and the ability to refine those grades into varying types of fuel differs due to the fact that the supplies and refining systems are not evenly distributed across the geography.


    baron muchhumpin 4248 2012-03-23 07:35:34.0 login to vote score 1
    since we EXPORTED last year, supply isn't an issue

    c4andmore 2539 2012-03-23 07:37:14.0 login to vote score 1
    fatsean: I've read that the producers are shutting down refineries due to lack of demand. They can't run two efficiently, so they shut down one...but the remaining refinery can't quite keep up with demand.

    Easy fix, just build half a refinery.
    fatsean 3838 2012-03-23 07:38:42.0 login to vote score 0
    c4andmore: Easy fix, just build half a refinery.

    Half-size wouldn't eek out enough profits I'm sure :D Building these things seems to be planned long term. 5, 10 years. I think the 2008 financial disaster really fucked them up.
    myinternetname 3691 2012-03-23 07:41:25.0 login to vote score 0
    Nothing can really change the price of oil unless THEY want it to change.


    Oh no, a small country that has nothing to do with oil production is having a close election with random riots. SHUT IT ALL DOWN AND JACK UP THE PRICES!!!!!!111111
    czarangelus 646 2012-03-23 07:45:34.0 login to vote score 1
    This thread is assholes.
    There's only one reason its going up; monetary inflation.
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-03-23 07:46:02.0 login to vote score 0
    baron muchhumpin: since we EXPORTED last year, supply isn't an issue


    Yet Obama want to release the Strategic Reserves thinking that will do it.

    He is a desperate moron.
    slinger 109 2012-03-23 07:46:27.0 login to vote score 1
    fatsean: Half-size wouldn't eek out enough profits I'm sure :D Building these things seems to be planned long term. 5, 10 years. I think the 2008 financial disaster really fucked them up.

    You have no idea. And there really isn't such a thing as "small/medium/large/wtf were you thinking" as far as refinery size. Also refineries are not like the tap water at your house. They have two modes of operation. "All out, full tilt" and "off" and it takes roughly a week or more to change between states.

    osirisothedead 1858 2012-03-23 07:51:19.0 login to vote score 2
    the sonic dildo: Yet Obama want to release the Strategic Reserves thinking that will do it.

    He is a desperate moron.


    Oh, look who else played politics with the strategic oil reserves.

    Hypocrisy, thy name is phil.
    sloth 222 2012-03-23 07:53:10.0 login to vote score 1
    pxsteel: If more drilling (supply) does not drop gas prices then conservation (supply) will not drop gas prices.

    supply being more than demand will cause gas prices to go down. No matter how it is done.


    Right-o.

    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-03-23 07:55:29.0 login to vote score 0
    osirisothedead: Oh, look who else played politics with the strategic oil reserves.

    Hypocrisy, thy name is phil.



    It was different then. Our supply is way up now.

    Durrrrrrrrrrrrr.

    BTW, supply is up thanks to Bush. He increased permits 106% during his tenure.


    fatsean 3838 2012-03-23 07:55:46.0 login to vote score 1
    sloth: Right-o.

    If the world was flat, yeah. I can see short term conservation having an effect on the price of local gasoline supplies...but then the producers would react if possible to decrease supply :D

    What if we increase production of a type of oil that can't be refined in the country?
    osirisothedead 1858 2012-03-23 07:56:51.0 login to vote score 3
    the sonic dildo: It was different then.

    Total cop-out.
    sloth 222 2012-03-23 07:58:58.0 login to vote score 0
    fatsean: If the world was flat, yeah. I can see short term conservation having an effect on the price of local gasoline supplies...but then the producers would react if possible to decrease supply :D

    That's what OPEC is for, yes, but OPEC is having less and less authority over prices - and, in fact, local production is one reason for that.
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-03-23 08:00:09.0 login to vote score 0
    osirisothedead: Total cop-out.


    It is the fucking truth.
    fatsean 3838 2012-03-23 08:01:08.0 login to vote score 1
    sloth: That's what OPEC is for, yes, but OPEC is having less and less authority over prices - and, in fact, local production is one reason for that.

    Well not just OPEC. What if a region's demand for gasoline dropped. Would the gas station owners start reducing their prices? nah, they already paid for their stock and might be contracted to buy a future load at an already determined price. They'll hang on to those prices hoping/knowing that demand will eventually come back. It's quite a fucking mess!
    quick1 501 2012-03-23 08:01:09.0 login to vote score 2
    czarangelus: This thread is assholes..

    This thread is now ponies!


    osirisothedead 1858 2012-03-23 08:02:04.0 login to vote score 2
    the sonic dildo: It is the fucking truth.

    No, the fucking truth is that Congressional Republicans stopped supplying the strategic oil reserve because they said it would lower gas prices under Bush. Now they're opposed to using the oil in the reserves solely because Obama is President. The fucking truth is that it's fucking politics, nothing more.
    baron muchhumpin 4248 2012-03-23 08:03:06.0 login to vote score 2
    the sonic dildo: It is the fucking truth.

    of course it's the truth, it was done by someone with a R next to their name

    czarangelus 646 2012-03-23 08:03:16.0 login to vote score 1
    Velocity of money is picking up. We're only now paying for TARP at the pump. Wait til we get the $16 trillion Fed bailout of Europe at the gas station.
    quick1 501 2012-03-23 08:04:35.0 login to vote score 2
    czarangelus: This thread is assholes.

    Downvoting ponies?


    the bon_scott 1073 2012-03-23 08:07:52.0 login to vote score 1
    osirisothedead 1858 2012-03-23 08:08:25.0 login to vote score 2
    pope sixtus ix 11309 2012-03-23 08:09:09.0 login to vote score 2
    czarangelus: This thread is assholes.



    osirisothedead 1858 2012-03-23 08:09:43.0 login to vote score 2
    quick1 501 2012-03-23 08:09:56.0 login to vote score 1
    paranoyd 6555 2012-03-23 08:10:02.0 login to vote score 0
    the sonic dildo: It was different then. Our supply is way up now.

    Durrrrrrrrrrrrr.

    BTW, supply is up thanks to Bush. He increased permits 106% during his tenure.


    So, you're saying "context matters"?
    quick1 501 2012-03-23 08:10:21.0 login to vote score 1
    osirisothedead 1858 2012-03-23 08:11:14.0 login to vote score 2
    quick1 501 2012-03-23 08:11:24.0 login to vote score 1
    the bon_scott 1073 2012-03-23 08:12:07.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: This thread is assholes.There's only one reason its going up; monetary inflation.


    quick1 501 2012-03-23 08:12:08.0 login to vote score 1
    quick1 501 2012-03-23 08:12:41.0 login to vote score 1
    quick1 501 2012-03-23 08:13:05.0 login to vote score 1
    osirisothedead 1858 2012-03-23 08:13:55.0 login to vote score 2
    l.darte 554 2012-03-23 08:16:51.0 login to vote score 1
    Wall Street controls gas prices thru speculation which grossly distorts the supply/demand balance. Get the speculators out of the picture and gas prices will begin to reflect the actual oil surplus that exists today.
    little hands of concrete 1804 2012-03-23 08:21:49.0 login to vote score 1
    What happened the last time gas prices went this high in America? People quit driving as much ... what happened when that happened? Prices started going down again ... Duh.
    farkmeblind 482 2012-03-23 08:23:54.0 login to vote score 0
    l.darte: Wall Street controls gas prices thru speculation which grossly distorts the supply/demand balance. Get the speculators out of the picture and gas prices will begin to reflect the actual oil surplus that exists today.

    What, you mean the simplest answer is also wrong? Whoda thunk?
    little hands of concrete 1804 2012-03-23 08:25:52.0 login to vote score 0
    Dammit ... If the Lib Tree Huggers would just step out of the way and let businesses be businesses, then this fluctuation wouldn't even be a discussion. We would have more pure market function with the gasoline supply/sales in this country and prices would be lower for the consumer and the suppliers' profits would be up because the Government and Libs would be taken out of the equation. Win/Win.
    sloth 222 2012-03-23 08:27:34.0 login to vote score 0
    fatsean: Well not just OPEC. What if a region's demand for gasoline dropped. Would the gas station owners start reducing their prices? nah, they already paid for their stock and might be contracted to buy a future load at an already determined price. They'll hang on to those prices hoping/knowing that demand will eventually come back. It's quite a f**king mess!

    It is a mess, and there are delays in the system, but it's still true that increasing supply OR lowering demand (which increases supply) lowers prices, and it's the only thing that will lower prices.
    osirisothedead 1858 2012-03-23 08:28:30.0 login to vote score 0
    sloth: It is a mess, and there are delays in the system, but it's still true that increasing supply OR lowering demand (which increases supply) lowers prices, and it's the only thing that will lower prices.

    And when prices drop, oil-producing nations tend to produce less to bring prices back up.
    czarangelus 646 2012-03-23 08:28:50.0 login to vote score 0
    l.darte: Wall Street controls gas prices thru speculation which grossly distorts the supply/demand balance. Get the speculators out of the picture and gas prices will begin to reflect the actual oil surplus that exists today.

    Are you insane? What haopens when the world stops buying USD from the Fed to trade internationally? Do you know shit from a screwdriver? Oil speculation is nothing but the asumption that causes have effects
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-03-23 08:29:54.0 login to vote score 0


    Gotta protect Obama at all costs.

    Lie Lie Lie
    paranoyd 6555 2012-03-23 08:31:01.0 login to vote score 0
    the sonic dildo: Gotta protect Obama at all costs.

    Lie Lie Lie


    Point out exactly what's been said that is a LIB! protecting Obama.
    czarangelus 646 2012-03-23 08:31:18.0 login to vote score 0
    The attack on speculators is much like FDR's attack on gold ownership. Or the recent claim anyone storing food is a terrorist suspect. They want to make it against the law not to go down with the ship.
    quick1 501 2012-03-23 08:31:58.0 login to vote score 0
    the sonic dildo: Gotta protect Obama at all costs.

    Lie Lie Lie



    osirisothedead 1858 2012-03-23 08:33:08.0 login to vote score 1
    I just did laundry and I have 2 socks that don't make a pair.

    FUCK YOU OBAMA
    czarangelus 646 2012-03-23 08:33:24.0 login to vote score 0
    The message of oil speculation is, "i repudiate your policies and wish to protect my wealth from their consequences;" no wonder liberals want to crucify speculators.
    sloth 222 2012-03-23 08:39:29.0 login to vote score 0
    osirisothedead: And when prices drop, oil-producing nations tend to produce less to bring prices back up.

    GOTO

    sloth: That's what OPEC is for, yes, but OPEC is having less and less authority over prices - and, in fact, local production is one reason for that.


    the bon_scott 1073 2012-03-23 08:39:30.0 login to vote score 0
    l.darte: Wall Street controls gas prices thru speculation which grossly distorts the supply/demand balance. Get the speculators out of the picture and gas prices will begin to reflect the actual oil surplus that exists today.

    It's all so simple...
    czarangelus 646 2012-03-23 08:39:56.0 login to vote score 0
    The government RAISES oil prices by increasing he monetary base. How the cunt did you shitherds think the wars and bailouts would be paid for? The magic of friendship?

    Anyone blaming speculators is a dangerous buffoon. Gas prices are how we're paying for GW Bush's immorality and profligacy today.
    little hands of concrete 1804 2012-03-23 08:39:57.0 login to vote score 1
    osirisothedead: And when prices drop, oil-producing nations tend to produce less to bring prices back up.

    I think it is pretty clear that $4 gas is a tipping point for Americans ... and, the producers/suppliers know this. It is in their best interest to not let $4 gas be the "standard" long-time gasoline price in America.


    paranoyd 6555 2012-03-23 08:40:54.0 login to vote score 0
    little hands of concrete: I think it is pretty clear that $4 gas is a tipping point for Americans ... and, the producers/suppliers know this. It is in their best interest to not let $4 gas be the "standard" long-time gasoline price in America.

    They'll raise it to $5.50 and then lower it to $4 and go "See? We lowered gas proces!"
    paranoyd 6555 2012-03-23 08:41:11.0 login to vote score 0
    Prices.

    Apparently, I can't speel today.
    pope sixtus ix 11309 2012-03-23 08:43:23.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus 646 2012-03-23 08:43:33.0 login to vote score 0
    little hands of concrete: I think it is pretty clear that $4 gas is a tipping point for Americans ... and, the producers/suppliers know this. It is in their best interest to not let $4 gas be the "standard" long-time gasoline price in America.

    They have nochoice. Why sell in America if you can fetch a higher price elsewhere?
    little hands of concrete 1804 2012-03-23 08:43:40.0 login to vote score 0
    paranoyd: They'll raise it to $5.50 and then lower it to $4 and go "See? We lowered gas proces!"

    I'm not going with your cynicism on this one ... $4 gas gets The Market riled and it will demand changes with their wallets and no gas maker wants that.


    so vote republican 6688 2012-03-23 08:44:18.0 login to vote score 2
    l.darte: Wall Street controls gas prices thru speculation which grossly distorts the supply/demand balance. Get the speculators out of the picture and gas prices will begin to reflect the actual oil surplus that exists today.

    You don't get to blame a ten+ year trend on short term speculators.
    czarangelus 646 2012-03-23 08:45:54.0 login to vote score 0
    little hands of concrete: I'm not going with your cynicism on this one ... $4 gas gets The Market riled and it will demand changes with their wallets and no gas maker wants that.

    They can't back down. Gas is $7+ in Europe. The only reason we don't pay that is thedying petrodollar system.
    little hands of concrete 1804 2012-03-23 08:47:23.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: They have nochoice. Why sell in America if you can fetch a higher price elsewhere?

    I'm thinking Americans use a lot more gasoline and that the numbers game works out well here.


    quick1 501 2012-03-23 08:47:30.0 login to vote score 1
    pope sixtus ix: [image removed]


    czarangelus 646 2012-03-23 08:49:08.0 login to vote score 0
    little hands of concrete: I'm thinking Americans use a lot more gasoline and that the numbers game works out well here.

    That's deranged Keynesianism. Demand is always infinite. Demand isn't a fucking commodity in and of itself. I demand a Maserati.
    paranoyd 6555 2012-03-23 08:50:03.0 login to vote score 0
    little hands of concrete: I'm not going with your cynicism on this one ... $4 gas gets The Market riled and it will demand changes with their wallets and no gas maker wants that.

    That's what they said about $3.
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-03-23 09:09:05.0 login to vote score 0
    quick1:


    Archer RULES!
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-03-23 09:10:51.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: They can't back down. Gas is $7+ in Europe. The only reason we don't pay that is thedying petrodollar system.


    At least the EuroZone socialists get a lot of bang for the buck in the gas taxes over there.

    Our tax dollars here in the USA are wasted and squandered by the ruling class.

    little hands of concrete 1804 2012-03-23 09:11:02.0 login to vote score 0
    paranoyd: That's what they said about $3.

    I guess we will see in about 3-4 months, huh?


    czarangelus 646 2012-03-23 09:13:04.0 login to vote score 0
    Liberals think demand is a saleable commodity in finite supply. Sigh. Demand is less finite than mp3s on the OG napster.
    czarangelus 646 2012-03-23 09:14:03.0 login to vote score 0
    the sonic dildo: At least the EuroZone socialists get a lot of bang for the buck in the gas taxes over there.

    Our tax dollars here in the USA are wasted and squandered by the ruling class.


    True. It takes a GWB or an Obama to make Norweigian socialism look utopian.
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-03-23 09:15:05.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: True. It takes a GWB or an Obama to make Norweigian socialism look utopian.


    It does. Bush was a spend-a-holic, but Obama makes him look stingy.
    fatsean 3838 2012-03-23 09:30:31.0 login to vote score 0
    sloth: It is a mess, and there are delays in the system, but it's still true that increasing supply OR lowering demand (which increases supply) lowers prices, and it's the only thing that will lower prices.

    It's the only thing that CAN lower prices, but OPEC and other smaller scale cartels do their best to prevent that from happening by mucking with the supply. This shit is rigged!
    sloth 222 2012-03-23 09:35:55.0 login to vote score 0
    fatsean: It's the only thing that CAN lower prices, but OPEC and other smaller scale cartels do their best to prevent that from happening by mucking with the supply. This s**t is rigged!

    Asked and answered above.
    czarangelus 646 2012-03-23 09:40:52.0 login to vote score 0
    The only thing that can lower gas prices sto completely change monetary policy in 2001. Hope you have a time machine.
    fatsean 3838 2012-03-23 09:41:45.0 login to vote score 0
    sloth: Asked and answered above.

    So you agree that the oil producers have their cartels and other techniques to control the price of oil and gasoline.


    sloth 222 2012-03-23 09:48:40.0 login to vote score 0
    fatsean: So you agree that the oil producers have their cartels and other techniques to control the price of oil and gasoline.

    More accurately, OPEC control supply, not price. They restrict their output. But, as noted above, their ability to actually restrict output has become ever more limited over time - and things like increased US and Canadian (and other non-OPEC countries) production are one of the reasons why.

    Simply, it doesn't make any sense to say "Well, we shouldn't bother increasing production in the US because OPEC will just reduce production in their countries." First, that would rather belie the very point of OPEC, and second, so what? That's a win for us, since it represents a shifting of revenues from OPEC to North American suppliers.
    pxsteel 2504 2012-03-23 09:54:18.0 login to vote score 0
    fatsean: It's the only thing that CAN lower prices, but OPEC and other smaller scale cartels do their best to prevent that from happening by mucking with the supply. This shit is rigged!

    Then the answer is drill here in the US and reduce the cartels influence.
    fatsean 3838 2012-03-23 09:56:46.0 login to vote score 1
    pxsteel: Then the answer is drill here in the US and reduce the cartels influence.

    Not enough supply to make a difference. Not enough refinery capacity to make a difference.

    The answer is for Americans not to be dumbshits and accept that their lifestyles will have to take a hit now in order to keep their lifestyles from getting even worse in the future.

    We've been on borrowed time since our warning in the 1970s IMO.
    fatsean 3838 2012-03-23 09:57:41.0 login to vote score 0
    Also, there are cartels and other similar constructs here in the USA I am quite sure. Happens alllll the time in business.
    sloth 222 2012-03-23 10:03:41.0 login to vote score 2
    fatsean: Not enough supply to make a difference. Not enough refinery capacity to make a difference.

    I seem to recall you mocking this argument when made in relation to Global Warming - the idea that nothing is worth doing unless it completely solves the problem. Seems to me that such an attitude is either always mock-worthy or never.
    sloth 222 2012-03-23 10:05:52.0 login to vote score 0
    fatsean: Also, there are cartels and other similar constructs here in the USA I am quite sure. Happens alllll the time in business.

    Wait, did you seriously just make the argument "I'm opposed to increasing production in the US because I'm sure there are cartels in the US that will seek to restrict production." Really?
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-03-23 10:06:19.0 login to vote score 0
    fatsean: Not enough supply to make a difference. Not enough refinery capacity to make a difference.

    sloth: I seem to recall you mocking this argument when made in relation to Global Warming - the idea that nothing is worth doing unless it completely solves the problem. Seems to me that such an attitude is either always mock-worthy or never.


    Progressive...they sure do love to pick and choose the double standards

    paranoyd 6555 2012-03-23 10:07:30.0 login to vote score 0
    little hands of concrete: I guess we will see in about 3-4 months, huh?

    I guess so.
    surfnazi 932 2012-03-23 10:07:51.0 login to vote score 0
    sloth: I seem to recall you mocking this argument when made in relation to Global Warming - the idea that nothing is worth doing unless it completely solves the problem. Seems to me that such an attitude is either always mock-worthy or never.

    You're saying that man's role in global warming is at all comparable in scope, process, concept, or any way at all with oil production and refining? That is an absurd position.
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-03-23 10:09:43.0 login to vote score 0
    surfnazi: You're saying that man's role in global warming is at all comparable in scope, process, concept, or any way at all with oil production and refining? That is an absurd position.


    Exactly. Oil production and refining really exists.
    paranoyd 6555 2012-03-23 10:09:46.0 login to vote score 0
    the sonic dildo:
    Progressive...they sure do love to pick and choose the double standards


    Now you're a progressive?
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-03-23 10:10:53.0 login to vote score 0
    paranoyd: Now you're a progressive?

    No sweetheart, I do not use double standards nor am I a hypocrite. Stop projecting.
    sloth 222 2012-03-23 10:11:56.0 login to vote score 1
    surfnazi: You're saying that man's role in global warming is at all comparable in scope, process, concept, or any way at all with oil production and refining? That is an absurd position.

    Please format your manufactured outrage into a clearer and less ambiguous statement, thanks.
    czarangelus 646 2012-03-23 10:33:28.0 login to vote score 1
    Gas is cheap if you buy with silver. One silver dime per gallon just like pappy usrd to claim.
    paranoyd 6555 2012-03-23 11:21:14.0 login to vote score 0
    the sonic dildo: No sweetheart, I do not use double standards nor am I a hypocrite. Stop projecting.

    Remember, it's not a lie if YOU believe it.
    fatsean 3838 2012-03-23 11:30:13.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: Gas is cheap if you buy with silver. One silver dime per gallon just like pappy usrd to claim.

    Only if you went back and time and bought the metal before you were born :D
    fatsean 3838 2012-03-23 11:33:09.0 login to vote score 0
    sloth: I seem to recall you mocking this argument when made in relation to Global Warming - the idea that nothing is worth doing unless it completely solves the problem. Seems to me that such an attitude is either always mock-worthy or never.


    The actions suggested to counter global warming will have a positive effect on the environment whether or not CO2 is the problem. Most of these ideas focus on new sources of energy.

    Contrast to those who want to drill drill drill a finite resource in order to keep prices marginally low NOW.

    The devil is in the details.


    grahams 5 2012-03-23 11:51:20.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: They can't back down. Gas is $7+ in Europe. The only reason we don't pay that is thedying petrodollar system.

    Mostly the reason you don't pay that here is because gasoline is pretty much tax free in the US. Take off tax and I pay more per gallon for 85 octane in CO than I do for 95 octane in scotland
    so vote republican 6688 2012-03-23 11:54:03.0 login to vote score 1
    fatsean: Only if you went back and time and bought the metal before you were born :D

    Silver was $5/ounce just ten years ago.
    If you logged in, you could post here.