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  • Those crazy libs at the WSJ say that austerity has made unemployment worse



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    Comments 1 through 100 of 155 shown. Page 1 2
    baron muchhumpin 4248 2012-05-11 05:06:20.0 login to vote score 1
    less $$$ = less government tit sucking jobs


    little hands of concrete 1804 2012-05-11 05:06:33.0 login to vote score 1
    fatsean 3838 2012-05-11 05:28:46.0 login to vote score 2
    Yup. Just wait until the automatic spending cuts kick in.

    Lots of businesses that exist only to contract to the government may find themselves DOA.

    You asked for it, you got it!
    sloth 222 2012-05-11 05:44:09.0 login to vote score 0
    fatsean: Yup. Just wait until the automatic spending cuts kick in.

    Lots of businesses that exist only to contract to the government may find themselves DOA.

    You asked for it, you got it!


    Growth is sometimes painful.
    fatsean 3838 2012-05-11 05:52:11.0 login to vote score 2
    sloth: Growth is sometimes painful.

    This is actually the economy contracting, isn't it?
    impasse 820 2012-05-11 05:53:01.0 login to vote score 10
    sloth: Growth is sometimes painful.

    Well as long as we got each other, sharing the laughter and love.
    sloth 222 2012-05-11 05:56:28.0 login to vote score 0
    fatsean: This is actually the economy contracting, isn't it?

    It's the job-market temporarily contracting. Could be very good for long-term growth, though.
    baron muchhumpin 4248 2012-05-11 05:59:51.0 login to vote score 3
    fatsean: This is actually the economy contracting, isn't it?

    actually it's pretty funny.

    Smaller tax revenues for the government means less distribution to the states, which in turn means less for cities and towns.

    Starting at the bottom we start cutting services, police/fire/emt/elderly care etc, and those costs get passed on to the citizens

    So as people preach "socialism is bad", we don't seem to mind taking things once covered by tax revenue and passing that cost onto the taxpayers themselves in the form of "fees"

    just moving money from bucket to bucket, and we're always paying for it

    the bon_scott 1073 2012-05-11 06:16:22.0 login to vote score 1
    fatsean: Yup. Just wait until the automatic spending cuts kick in. Lots of businesses that exist only to contract to the government may find themselves DOA.You asked for it, you got it!

    Good.

    Everybody keeps trying to pretend the country isn't going broke, when it's already broke.
    baron muchhumpin 4248 2012-05-11 06:21:35.0 login to vote score 3
    the bon_scott: Good.

    Everybody keeps trying to pretend the country isn't going broke, when it's already broke.



    fatsean 3838 2012-05-11 06:24:30.0 login to vote score 0
    sloth: It's the job-market temporarily contracting. Could be very good for long-term growth, though.

    I think it may be. I also think people are going to get a rude shock when significant cuts in Federal spending finally trickle down all over their lifestyles :) Like the Baron said...when the Federal funds start drying up, where will the shortfalls be made up? Local and state taxes and fees combine with even further reductions in service. Hope everyone is ready!
    fatsean 3838 2012-05-11 06:29:07.0 login to vote score 2
    the bon_scott: Good.

    Everybody keeps trying to pretend the country isn't going broke, when it's already broke.


    We need a few years of austerity. I think it would be good for the nation's character. We'll see what really happens when social services are curtailed and people start losing the assistance that keeps them fed and housed. Maybe charity will step up. It certainly wasn't able to keep up with increased demand during the dark days of the recession. Should be plenty of interesting and sad stories.
    the bon_scott 1073 2012-05-11 06:40:54.0 login to vote score 3
    fatsean: We need a few years of austerity. I think it would be good for the nation's character. We'll see what really happens when social services are curtailed and people start losing the assistance that keeps them fed and housed. Maybe charity will step up. It certainly wasn't able to keep up with increased demand during the dark days of the recession. Should be plenty of interesting and sad stories.

    People need to stop living on a fantasy island, taking a plethora of services (the country can't afford) for granted while demanding they shouldn't have to pay taxes to fund what they take for granted.
    farkmeblind 482 2012-05-11 06:42:35.0 login to vote score 0
    baron muchhumpin: actually it's pretty funny.

    Smaller tax revenues for the government means less distribution to the states, which in turn means less for cities and towns.

    Starting at the bottom we start cutting services, police/fire/emt/elderly care etc, and those costs get passed on to the citizens

    So as people preach "socialism is bad", we don't seem to mind taking things once covered by tax revenue and passing that cost onto the taxpayers themselves in the form of "fees"

    just moving money from bucket to bucket, and we're always paying for it



    Fed/state spending on higher ed hit its' lowest ebb in 2010. Guess who's paying?
    chaos 446 2012-05-11 06:52:56.0 login to vote score 3
    the bon_scott: People need to stop living on a fantasy island, taking a plethora of services (the country can't afford) for granted while demanding they shouldn't have to pay taxes to fund what they take for granted.

    My wife's sister and husband, sling their money around - their kids have every damn toy on TV and get pretty much anything they want - meanwhile, as soon as one of them gets a raise - they get a new car.

    My wife and I don't have much savings, but we also don't dig ourselves into debt by getting our WANTS.

    Sad thing, the others have already been in the dumps with finances and once they got their feet back under them - they're fucking doing it again!
    the bon_scott 1073 2012-05-11 06:54:32.0 login to vote score 2
    chaos: My wife's sister and husband, sling their money around - their kids have every damn toy on TV and get pretty much anything they want - meanwhile, as soon as one of them gets a raise - they get a new car.My wife and I don't have much savings, but we also don't dig ourselves into debt by getting our WANTS. Sad thing, the others have already been in the dumps with finances and once they got their feet back under them - they're fucking doing it again!

    I blame banks. It's never people's own fault for thriving on living on debt. I learned that on bN.
    chaos 446 2012-05-11 06:56:28.0 login to vote score 0
    the bon_scott: I blame banks. It's never people's own fault for thriving on living on debt. I learned that on bN.

    LOL - well, to some degree banks have been too giving. though, the individual is to blame for how they handle things.

    My ex, while in college, working a part-time job making about $5k / year, was given a $20k credit line... and she was in liberal arts... not engineering or nursing... liberal arts.

    I'm guessing she's still paying that mother off, because she abused the hell out of it.
    the bon_scott 1073 2012-05-11 06:58:50.0 login to vote score 0
    chaos: LOL - well, to some degree banks have been too giving. though, the individual is to blame for how they handle things.My ex, while in college, working a part-time job making about $5k / year, was given a $20k credit line... and she was in liberal arts... not engineering or nursing... liberal arts.I'm guessing she's still paying that mother off, because she abused the hell out of it.

    Well, you can't blame her, she was FORCED to use that credit wasn't she?

    And the people astute enough not to use credit they can't afford continue to be silent crazy pragmatists.
    fatsean 3838 2012-05-11 07:01:53.0 login to vote score 1
    chaos: LOL - well, to some degree banks have been too giving. though, the individual is to blame for how they handle things.

    My ex, while in college, working a part-time job making about $5k / year, was given a $20k credit line... and she was in liberal arts... not engineering or nursing... liberal arts.

    I'm guessing she's still paying that mother off, because she abused the hell out of it.


    The bank made a gamble. She could always file for bankruptcy and tell them to suck it.
    baron muchhumpin 4248 2012-05-11 07:02:43.0 login to vote score 0
    fatsean: The bank made a gamble. She could always file for bankruptcy and tell them to suck it.

    then she can suck it for 7 years...
    chaos 446 2012-05-11 07:06:16.0 login to vote score 0
    the bon_scott: Well, you can't blame her, she was FORCED to use that credit wasn't she?

    And the people astute enough not to use credit they can't afford continue to be silent crazy pragmatists.


    FORCED! :-)
    chaos 446 2012-05-11 07:06:46.0 login to vote score 0
    baron muchhumpin: then she can suck it for 7 years...

    she could suck it well... I'd like to take that stem cell from her and put it in my wife, if you know what I mean.
    vushtrriboy 3085 2012-05-11 07:12:32.0 login to vote score 0
    baron muchhumpin: actually it's pretty funny.

    Smaller tax revenues for the government means less distribution to the states, which in turn means less for cities and towns.

    Starting at the bottom we start cutting services, police/fire/emt/elderly care etc, and those costs get passed on to the citizens

    So as people preach "socialism is bad", we don't seem to mind taking things once covered by tax revenue and passing that cost onto the taxpayers themselves in the form of "fees"

    just moving money from bucket to bucket, and we're always paying for it


    Or you could be like us. Don't pay for anything, double-dog dare the state to take over administration of the county. Stick your tongue out and everything.
    fatsean 3838 2012-05-11 07:26:27.0 login to vote score 0
    baron muchhumpin: then she can suck it for 7 years...

    Yup. Go cash only.
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-11 07:27:16.0 login to vote score 0
    The Wall St. Urinal has always been a Statist mouthpiece.
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-11 07:27:37.0 login to vote score 0
    or did we all forget it's a Murdoch Publication when it suits our own petty politics?
    fatsean 3838 2012-05-11 07:31:13.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus: or did we all forget it's a Murdoch Publication when it suits our own petty politics?

    A broken clock is right twice a day. I've been trying to remind people rabid for deep gov't spending cuts that they might end up with unexpected ass bites.
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-11 07:34:42.0 login to vote score 0
    fatsean: A broken clock is right twice a day. I've been trying to remind people rabid for deep gov't spending cuts that they might end up with unexpected ass bites.

    I've never disagreed on that, have I? We need to lose 60 million jobs in this country before we can even consider the start of a recovery.
    little hands of concrete 1804 2012-05-11 07:38:35.0 login to vote score 3
    I am of the strange notion that financial messes are created by all of the parties involved in them ... individuals, banks, government, corporations, etc. To lay the blame, or most of the blame, on any faction is simplistic and silly.
    the bon_scott 1073 2012-05-11 07:41:28.0 login to vote score 0
    little hands of concrete: I am of the strange notion that financial messes are created by all of the parties involved in them ... individuals, banks, government, corporations, etc. To lay the blame, or most of the blame, on any faction is simplistic and silly.

    Sociopath!!
    fatsean 3838 2012-05-11 07:41:51.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: I've never disagreed on that, have I? We need to lose 60 million jobs in this country before we can even consider the start of a recovery.

    I don't know how many need to be lost, but I do know we need to do it more slowly than we have. And that end of year budget cut is gonna be huge.
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-11 07:50:09.0 login to vote score 1
    fatsean: I don't know how many need to be lost, but I do know we need to do it more slowly than we have. And that end of year budget cut is gonna be huge.

    Frankly, we should have solved this problem when it was Ronald Reguevara
    fatsean 3838 2012-05-11 09:04:07.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: Frankly, we should have solved this problem when it was Ronald Reguevara

    All we really need is to show a solid trend of debt reduction.
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-11 09:11:22.0 login to vote score 1
    fatsean: All we really need is to show a solid trend of debt reduction.

    How will that happen, exactly? Given our current interest payments, that would require cutting the public sector to the marrow, which would lead to the same debt-unemployment spiral that Greece is in. Guess what? You can do badly enough in Chess to end up in an unwinnable position, and that's where we are, now
    grahams 5 2012-05-11 09:13:44.0 login to vote score 1
    the bon_scott: People need to stop living on a fantasy island, taking a plethora of services (the country can't afford) for granted while demanding they shouldn't have to pay taxes to fund what they take for granted.

    Excellent point.

    Our elected reps seem so happy to cut social programs that help the poor. I wonder when we'll see some of the middle class ones cut.

    Might actually happen with student loans, but I have a feeling it'll be a cold day in hell when the mortgage interest deduction is killed.
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-11 09:14:45.0 login to vote score 0
    grahams: Excellent point.Our elected reps seem so happy to cut social programs that help the poor. I wonder when we'll see some of the middle class ones cut. Might actually happen with student loans, but I have a feeling it'll be a cold day in hell when the mortgage interest deduction is killed.

    When this pops, we're screwed again


    grahams 5 2012-05-11 09:15:52.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus: When this pops, we're screwed again

    But student loans aren't the problem, the ridiculous inflation in the cost of education is the actual problem. The student loans are merely the symptom of that
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-11 09:18:57.0 login to vote score 1
    grahams: But student loans aren't the problem, the ridiculous inflation in the cost of education is the actual problem. The student loans are merely the symptom of that

    Universities will charge what people are willing/able to pay, naturally. Liquidity causes prices to rise and the government has created artificial liquidity in the higher education sector.
    vet_curm 1500 2012-05-11 09:23:20.0 login to vote score 1
    grahams: . . . but I have a feeling it'll be a cold day in hell when the mortgage interest deduction is killed.


    They know it would be like those Pace commercials.








    "Get a rope"

    grahams 5 2012-05-11 09:24:08.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus: Universities will charge what people are willing/able to pay, naturally. Liquidity causes prices to rise and the government has created artificial liquidity in the higher education sector.

    I suspect that cutbacks in the state systems have pushed up the costs of going to state schools and all the prices across the segment have increased.

    Not sure how the government didn't see that one coming
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-11 09:27:53.0 login to vote score 1
    grahams: I suspect that cutbacks in the state systems have pushed up the costs of going to state schools and all the prices across the segment have increased.Not sure how the government didn't see that one coming

    I know, of all my grad student/PhD holding friends, one? Two? Who actually works in the field they graduated in. We have a massive higher education bubble and millions of young adults hiding from the economy in college. That which is unsustainable will not be sustained, and it'll be a blow to the middle class on the same scale as the blow from the housing meltdown. It will happen, it is inevitable.
    grahams 5 2012-05-11 09:38:11.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus: I know, of all my grad student/PhD holding friends, one? Two? Who actually works in the field they graduated in. We have a massive higher education bubble and millions of young adults hiding from the economy in college. That which is unsustainable will not be sustained, and it'll be a blow to the middle class on the same scale as the blow from the housing meltdown. It will happen, it is inevitable.


    That's a tenuous one, it's not "working in your field" is clearly defined.

    I did a comp sci/ electronic eng joint degree and yet I work mostly in software. From where I'm standing that's unrelated to my degree, but most people probably couldn't tell the difference.
    grahams 5 2012-05-11 09:38:31.0 login to vote score 1
    sorry for my grammar fail there, trying to multitask
    fatsean 3838 2012-05-11 09:38:32.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: How will that happen, exactly? Given our current interest payments, that would require cutting the public sector to the marrow, which would lead to the same debt-unemployment spiral that Greece is in. Guess what? You can do badly enough in Chess to end up in an unwinnable position, and that's where we are, now


    Raise revenues. The wealthy are paying historically low rates. Temporary tax hike for a few years that will expire would go a long way.

    We cannot cut our way to an even balance sheet.
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-11 09:39:41.0 login to vote score 0
    fatsean: Raise revenues. The wealthy are paying historically low rates. Temporary tax hike for a few years that will expire would go a long way.We cannot cut our way to an even balance sheet.

    You could take every dollar earned by the rich and not even come in the neighborhood of closing the deficit. It's over. Communism failed in America just like it failed in the USSR.
    fatsean 3838 2012-05-11 09:40:44.0 login to vote score 1
    grahams: Excellent point.

    Our elected reps seem so happy to cut social programs that help the poor. I wonder when we'll see some of the middle class ones cut.

    Might actually happen with student loans, but I have a feeling it'll be a cold day in hell when the mortgage interest deduction is killed.


    Yup. The people who are against Fannie and Freddie backing mortgages don't seem as concerned about government subsidies for those who already have a mortgage.
    fatsean 3838 2012-05-11 09:40:51.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: You could take every dollar earned by the rich and not even come in the neighborhood of closing the deficit. It's over. Communism failed in America just like it failed in the USSR.

    Bullshit.
    grahams 5 2012-05-11 09:42:11.0 login to vote score 3
    czarangelus: You could take every dollar earned by the rich and not even come in the neighborhood of closing the deficit. It's over. Communism failed in America just like it failed in the USSR.

    Are you even vaguely familiar with what communism actually is? Or are you drinking the koolaid about the marxist in the whitehouse?
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-11 09:42:42.0 login to vote score 0
    abt12monk 10796 2012-05-11 09:44:02.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: You could take every dollar earned by the rich and not even come in the neighborhood of closing the deficit. It's over. Communism failed in America just like it failed in the USSR.

    Umm
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-11 09:44:15.0 login to vote score 1
    grahams: Are you even vaguely familiar with what communism actually is? Or are you drinking the koolaid about the marxist in the whitehouse?

    The US economy is centrally planned by international banking cartels using the Federal Reserve as their instrument. That is the same in essence as communism. The Fed (cartel) picks the winners and the losers, the Fed sets the price of money and the price of time for the whole country. Obama is just the minstrel show.
    grahams 5 2012-05-11 09:44:41.0 login to vote score 2
    fatsean: Yup. The people who are against Fannie and Freddie backing mortgages don't seem as concerned about government subsidies for those who already have a mortgage.

    Yeah, although there's a great deal of cognitive dissonance about that one. The HMI deduction probably saves me about $3k/year. It's like every middle class household in the US getting foodstamps from the government.
    vet_curm 1500 2012-05-11 09:44:52.0 login to vote score 2
    czarangelus: You could take every dollar earned by the rich and not even come in the neighborhood of closing the deficit. It's over. Communism failed in America just like it failed in the USSR.




    czarangelus 646 2012-05-11 09:45:05.0 login to vote score 0
    grahams 5 2012-05-11 09:45:57.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus: The US economy is centrally planned by international banking cartels using the Federal Reserve as their instrument. That is the same in essence as communism. The Fed (cartel) picks the winners and the losers, the Fed sets the price of money and the price of time for the whole country. Obama is just the minstrel show.

    Our government isn't centrally planned. Even the federal government is trying to move in a bunch of different directions, then factor in that various state governments are suing the fed and vice versa.

    Central planning might not even be a bad thing at this point
    abt12monk 10796 2012-05-11 09:47:18.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: The US economy is centrally planned by international banking cartels using the Federal Reserve as their instrument.

    I don't seem to recall the US government (or any for that matter) ever actually forcing me to enter a specific career.

    What you're describing isn't communism, in theory or in practice.
    the bon_scott 1073 2012-05-11 09:47:26.0 login to vote score 0
    grahams: I suspect that cutbacks in the state systems have pushed up the costs of going to state schools and all the prices across the segment have increased.Not sure how the government didn't see that one coming

    They did see it coming. It's just that the GOP blames Obama for 48 states developing big budget deficits, at the same time of the federal government, because he took office during a severe credit and economic crisis (that some bN libs want to continue for working people's sake...).
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-11 09:47:53.0 login to vote score 0
    grahams: Our government isn't centrally planned. Even the federal government is trying to move in a bunch of different directions, then factor in that various state governments are suing the fed and vice versa.Central planning might not even be a bad thing at this point

    Price controls price, that was the problem in the USSR. "Experts" sat around and told factories how many combs to build every year, as if they knew. Controlling the interest rate is even more damaging, because it's a manipulation of the medium of exchange and not a mere consumer product. Why can't people understand this? 300,000,000 are, in aggregate, better at economic planning than 12 experts sitting around a mahogany desk.
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-11 09:48:44.0 login to vote score 0
    abt12monk: I don't seem to recall the US government (or any for that matter) ever actually forcing me to enter a specific career.What you're describing isn't communism, in theory or in practice.

    Sure they did, silly. They subsidized your four years at Berkley studying feminism in black swans instead of allowing you freedom, or subsidizing a trade school.
    abt12monk 10796 2012-05-11 09:50:24.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus:

    So bloomberg is pravda now?

    Ok, here. There's like a dozen different news articles reporting the same exactly thing.
    abt12monk 10796 2012-05-11 09:50:55.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: Sure they did, silly. They subsidized your four years at Berkley studying feminism in black swans instead of allowing you freedom, or subsidizing a trade school.

    You have zero idea what I do.
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-11 09:52:17.0 login to vote score 0
    abt12monk: So bloomberg is pravda now?Ok, here. There's like a dozen different news articles reporting the same exactly thing.

    The mechanisms of government reporting are self-aggrandizing, just like the fake BLS numbers.

    abt12monk: You have zero idea what I do.

    What you do doesn't matter. I'm talking about trends. You don't have to capture everybody in the System, just enough.
    grahams 5 2012-05-11 09:53:30.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus: Price controls price, that was the problem in the USSR. "Experts" sat around and told factories how many combs to build every year, as if they knew. Controlling the interest rate is even more damaging, because it's a manipulation of the medium of exchange and not a mere consumer product. Why can't people understand this? 300,000,000 are, in aggregate, better at economic planning than 12 experts sitting around a mahogany desk.

    But controlling an interest rate is not communism, it's just not.

    You can argue that it's an unreasonable amount of government control, and that might be true but that doesn't make it communism
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-11 09:54:10.0 login to vote score 0
    grahams: But controlling an interest rate is not communism, it's just not.You can argue that it's an unreasonable amount of government control, and that might be true but that doesn't make it communism

    It's cartel ownership of the medium of production.
    vet_curm 1500 2012-05-11 09:54:11.0 login to vote score 1
    abt12monk: You have zero idea what I do.

    four words




    Content

    Addressable

    Parallel

    Processors




    Amirite?
    grahams 5 2012-05-11 09:58:07.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus: It's cartel ownership of the medium of production.

    Which is BY DEFINITION not marxism.
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-11 09:59:06.0 login to vote score 0
    grahams: Which is BY DEFINITION not marxism.

    You're misunderstanding Communism in practice. The USSR had owners and aristocrats and oligarchs, just the propaganda disseminated was different.
    grahams 5 2012-05-11 10:02:05.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus: You're misunderstanding Communism in practice. The USSR had owners and aristocrats and oligarchs, just the propaganda disseminated was different.

    Well that's a fair point, but I don't think it's fair to say that what was practiced in the USSR was Marxism and it's questionable whether it's even communism.

    The textbook definition of communism requires classless and moneyless.
    burntman 1528 2012-05-11 10:06:12.0 login to vote score 1
    grahams: Which is BY DEFINITION not marxism.

    lol, you're talking to a guy who claims Reagan was a communist. Things are a bit different in czarian space. Parallel lines don't just converge, they intertwine

    czarangelus:

    Which website was it that you got booted from with the reagan is a commie idea? was it free republic?
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-11 10:06:30.0 login to vote score 0
    grahams: Well that's a fair point, but I don't think it's fair to say that what was practiced in the USSR was Marxism and it's questionable whether it's even communism.The textbook definition of communism requires classless and moneyless.

    Well, that's just silly. You can't have specialization of labor without cash, and you can't feed 300,000,000 without specialization of labor.
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-11 10:07:01.0 login to vote score 1
    burntman: lol, you're talking to a guy who claims Reagan was a communist. Things are a bit different in czarian space. Parallel lines don't just converge, they intertwineWhich website was it that you got booted from with the reagan is a commie idea? was it free republic?

    yup. And I got permabanned from Common Dreams during the Obama campaign, surprise surprise.
    burntman 1528 2012-05-11 10:07:40.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: yup. And I got permabanned from Common Dreams during the Obama campaign, surprise surprise.

    lol I remember that. Have you trolled stormfront yet?
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-11 10:08:53.0 login to vote score 0
    burntman: lol I remember that. Have you trolled stormfront yet?

    Honestly, if you just subtract the racism, there's a deceptive air of reasonableness at stormfront. As a community they have a better-than-average handle on what most of our problems are. I'm just not sure interracial marriage is one of our problems.
    burntman 1528 2012-05-11 10:10:25.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: Honestly, if you just subtract the racism, there's a deceptive air of reasonableness at stormfront. As a community they have a better-than-average handle on what most of our problems are. I'm just not sure interracial marriage is one of our problems.

    well, the day you decide to have a discussion there let me know. I could certainly use the giggle :)
    grahams 5 2012-05-11 10:13:03.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: Well, that's just silly. You can't have specialization of labor without cash, and you can't feed 300,000,000 without specialization of labor.

    Nobody is claiming communism is a great idea.

    What's going on in this country just isn't that comparable to the USSR. We may both be destined to fail, but I suspect we'll fail in very different ways.

    In some ways it might be more comparable to the fail of the roman empire - an entitlement class back home, mistreatment of the poor, expending massive resources fighting on distant fronts...
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-11 10:14:26.0 login to vote score 0
    grahams: Nobody is claiming communism is a great idea. What's going on in this country just isn't that comparable to the USSR. We may both be destined to fail, but I suspect we'll fail in very different ways. In some ways it might be more comparable to the fail of the roman empire - an entitlement class back home, mistreatment of the poor, expending massive resources fighting on distant fronts...

    I think a breakup of the USA is actually possible. A nation of California, of Texas, of New England...
    vet_curm 1500 2012-05-11 10:15:40.0 login to vote score 1
    abt12monk: You have zero idea what I do.

    Please don't take any offense at my flippancy.






    And remember not to get your schwartz twisted up with his, Lone Star. ;)
    burntman 1528 2012-05-11 10:17:00.0 login to vote score 0
    grahams: In some ways it might be more comparable to the fail of the roman empire - an entitlement class back home, mistreatment of the poor, expending massive resources fighting on distant fronts...

    maybe Salazars Portugal?
    xomber 4626 2012-05-11 10:26:01.0 login to vote score 0
    little hands of concrete: I am of the strange notion that financial messes are created by all of the parties involved in them ... individuals, banks, government, corporations, etc. To lay the blame, or most of the blame, on any faction is simplistic and silly.

    This.
    abt12monk 10796 2012-05-11 12:11:14.0 login to vote score 0
    vet_curm: four words




    Content

    Addressable

    Parallel

    Processors




    Amirite?


    Lol, you're in the ballpark :)


    vet_curm: Please don't take any offense at my flippancy.

    And remember not to get your schwartz twisted up with his, Lone Star. ;)


    None taken :)

    baron muchhumpin 4248 2012-05-11 12:17:33.0 login to vote score 0
    vet_curm: four words
    Content
    Addressable
    Parallel
    Processors
    Amirite?


    you forgot Cloud, Virtualized and Deduped

    baron muchhumpin 4248 2012-05-11 12:23:00.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: When this pops, we're screwed again

    is that divergence roughly where "becoming a perpetual student" really took off?

    and of course, moving back in with the 'rents

    so vote republican 6688 2012-05-11 12:30:05.0 login to vote score 1
    fatsean: A broken clock is right twice a day. I've been trying to remind people rabid for deep gov't spending cuts that they might end up with unexpected ass bites.

    The cuts are coming as the government is beyond broke. Don't tell them they might.

    If you really care for them, you'll tell they will come.

    This is the travesty that the promises cause...
    so vote republican 6688 2012-05-11 12:30:38.0 login to vote score 1
    little hands of concrete: I am of the strange notion that financial messes are created by all of the parties involved in them ... individuals, banks, government, corporations, etc. To lay the blame, or most of the blame, on any faction is simplistic and silly.

    I 100% blame HBO.
    so vote republican 6688 2012-05-11 12:32:02.0 login to vote score 0
    grahams: Might actually happen with student loans, but I have a feeling it'll be a cold day in hell when the mortgage interest deduction is killed.

    That would be terrible to see all the people lose their homes.
    grahams 5 2012-05-11 12:34:33.0 login to vote score 2
    so vote republican: That would be terrible to see all the people lose their homes.

    I was more intrigued by the cognitive dissonance that lets the middle class claim thousands a year from a social program while claiming they aren't using any social programs
    so vote republican 6688 2012-05-11 12:35:37.0 login to vote score 0
    fatsean: Yup. The people who are against Fannie and Freddie backing mortgages don't seem as concerned about government subsidies for those who already have a mortgage.

    The government has always allowed deductions for mortgage interest. Therefore it's not a "subsidy".

    In fact, they used to allow deductions for ALL interest.

    You know, like they do for businesses...
    so vote republican 6688 2012-05-11 12:36:24.0 login to vote score 0
    grahams: I was more intrigued by the cognitive dissonance that lets the middle class claim thousands a year from a social program while claiming they aren't using any social programs

    It isn't a social program. Mortgage interest has never been considered income. It's been a slow expansion of taxes that makes it seem like a social program.
    grahams 5 2012-05-11 12:38:27.0 login to vote score 0
    so vote republican: It isn't a social program. Mortgage interest has never been considered income. It's been a slow expansion of taxes that makes it seem like a social program.

    Yes it is - the government is using tax policy to incentivize behavior. Isn't that the very essence of a social policy?

    Just because they don't have your mortgage stamps every week doesn't mean it's functionally any different
    so vote republican 6688 2012-05-11 12:39:41.0 login to vote score 1
    grahams: Our government isn't centrally planned. Even the federal government is trying to move in a bunch of different directions, then factor in that various state governments are suing the fed and vice versa.

    Central planning might not even be a bad thing at this point





    baron muchhumpin 4248 2012-05-11 12:40:55.0 login to vote score 0
    grahams: I was more intrigued by the cognitive dissonance that lets the middle class claim thousands a year from a social program while claiming they aren't using any social programs


    so vote republican 6688 2012-05-11 12:41:14.0 login to vote score 1
    abt12monk: So bloomberg is pravda now?

    Ok, here. There's like a dozen different news articles reporting the same exactly thing.


    The government has added debt for the last four decades. One month doesn't change that.

    It's no different than pointing to a heavy snowstorm to disprove global warming.
    fatsean 3838 2012-05-11 12:44:15.0 login to vote score 0
    so vote republican: The cuts are coming as the government is beyond broke. Don't tell them they might.

    If you really care for them, you'll tell they will come.

    This is the travesty that the promises cause...


    I suspect that when push comes to shove we will see some moderate cuts but that taxes will go up on the wealthy quite a bit as well. But this big shoe ready to drop at the end of the year will give us all a little taste of what will happen if the hard-core deficit hawks get their way and try to balance the budget in a year or two.

    And when nearly every country in the world that is even close to the size of the USA has equivalent indebtedness...I have to think that something un-thought-of will be done to sort it all out.
    so vote republican 6688 2012-05-11 12:45:42.0 login to vote score 0
    grahams: Yes it is - the government is using tax policy to incentivize behavior. Isn't that the very essence of a social policy?

    That makes everything a "social" program if it isn't specifically taxed. Which is, of course, my program with the tax code.

    Just because they don't have your mortgage stamps every week doesn't mean it's functionally any different

    Bull. Shit.

    Food stamps are applied for when you are unable to feed yourself to keep you from starving temporarily. It is a positive action (providing food).

    The mortgage deduction is something perfectly capable adults do as part of budgetary planning when they make decisions lasting decades. It is a negative action (not taxing mortgage expenses).

    It is ridiculous to conflate them and reflects badly upon you.
    so vote republican 6688 2012-05-11 12:46:19.0 login to vote score 1
    fatsean: I have to think that something un-thought-of will be done to sort it all out.

    Czar's thought of it. As have I.
    baron muchhumpin 4248 2012-05-11 12:46:29.0 login to vote score 1
    so vote republican: The government has added debt for the last four decades. One month doesn't change that.

    It's no different than pointing to a heavy snowstorm to disprove global warming.


    and just because there's lots of negative news doesn't mean this happening wasn't a GOOD THING
    fatsean 3838 2012-05-11 12:46:31.0 login to vote score 0
    Also, I'd argue that we already have central economic planners. They are the few very wealthy persons and organizations who control half of the nations' wealth. Of course, we didn't get to appoint them.
    fatsean 3838 2012-05-11 12:47:05.0 login to vote score 0
    so vote republican: Czar's thought of it. As have I.

    Mutual debt write-downs across the world with some military skirmishes thrown in for good measure. That's my take.
    spongegirl circleskirt 382 2012-05-11 12:48:46.0 login to vote score 0
    US Government is based on the three party system first invented by the Roman Republic. What's happening now, czar, is that the weakness of this system is having the the wealthy running the senate. This is what happened to The Roman Republic before it went Empire. The future for us I foresee, is not a socialist state, but a dictatorship run by few people or one person...and that person is not going to be the President of the United States. We are far far far from being in Marxist territory.
    so vote republican 6688 2012-05-11 12:49:20.0 login to vote score 1
    baron muchhumpin: and just because there's lots of negative news doesn't mean this happening wasn't a GOOD THING

    Sure. The vertical airspeed of our airliner plunging towards the earth has slowed from 600mph to 550mph.

    The ground is now 4000ft away.

    GOOD. THING.
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