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  • Will Employers Dump Health Insurance Coverage?



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    fatsean 3838 2012-05-30 08:19:18.0 login to vote score 2
    If the portion of money they used to spend on healthcare is added to salaries, that might work. Bet they won't do that though :)
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-30 08:20:26.0 login to vote score 2
    fatsean: If the portion of money they used to spend on healthcare is added to salaries, that might work. Bet they won't do that though :)

    Health care should have never, ever been tied to employers in the first place. Of course, there was a time in our history where labor had power, and were able to bid up benefits.
    eddyatwork 998 2012-05-30 08:23:05.0 login to vote score 0
    I hope so.
    someone who may or may not be unhealthybNer 2012-05-30 08:23:31.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: Health care should have never, ever been tied to employers in the first place. Of course, there was a time in our history where labor had power, and were able to bid up benefits.

    I like it as a convenience, but I'm not sure that is a great thing.

    I do think this is a good opportunity to start a consulting business - help people evaluate where they should get their healthcare.

    CAPITALISM, I just increased the economy
    fatsean 3838 2012-05-30 08:23:39.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus: Health care should have never, ever been tied to employers in the first place. Of course, there was a time in our history where labor had power, and were able to bid up benefits.

    Indeed. Health care should have been provided and/or funded by the government for all.
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-30 08:24:22.0 login to vote score 1
    fatsean: Indeed. Health care should have been provided and/or funded by the government for all.

    Why?
    chaos 446 2012-05-30 08:24:29.0 login to vote score 0
    Shit, our CEO is fucking waaaaaaaaiiiiiittttttting on this opportunity.

    Until 2yrs ago, he hired everyone as a consultant so he could avoid all of this. Then they started growing and had to offer it to FTEs... he can't wait.
    fatsean 3838 2012-05-30 08:24:30.0 login to vote score 2
    eddyatwork: I hope so.

    When people start seeing the REAL cost of our unimpressive health care system then maybe they'll get serious about reforming it. That's my hope anyway.
    chaos 446 2012-05-30 08:24:43.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: Why?

    cheese!
    chaos 446 2012-05-30 08:24:55.0 login to vote score 0
    fatsean: When people start seeing the REAL cost of our unimpressive health care system then maybe they'll get serious about reforming it. That's my hope anyway.

    yep
    fatsean 3838 2012-05-30 08:29:56.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus: Why?

    Because that is what works.
    finnley wren 24 2012-05-30 08:30:04.0 login to vote score 1
    "During a recent guest spot on talk radio, a caller asked me how all the doctors will like working for the government."

    They don't seem to complain much now about 1/3 of their income being derived from public sources.
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-30 08:30:09.0 login to vote score 0
    fatsean: Because that is what works.

    What works to do what?
    finnley wren 24 2012-05-30 08:32:14.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: Why?

    Comparing our own experience with much of the rest of the world, it would seem to be the most effective way to deliver it.
    fatsean 3838 2012-05-30 08:32:43.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus: What works to do what?

    Government provided healthcare systems are the best in the world. Ours is terrible.
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-30 08:33:22.0 login to vote score 1
    finnley wren: Comparing our own experience with much of the rest of the world, it would seem to be the most effective way to deliver it.


    fatsean: Government provided healthcare systems are the best in the world. Ours is terrible.

    Nobody says our system is good, but I'd blame government involvement from the get-go
    finnley wren 24 2012-05-30 08:34:08.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: Nobody says our system is good, but I'd blame government involvement from the get-go

    Of course you would.
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-30 08:35:28.0 login to vote score 1
    finnley wren: Of course you would.

    Running a cartel that denies people access to medication and treatment is such a thankless task, isn't it?
    finnley wren 24 2012-05-30 08:36:45.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus: Running a cartel that denies people access to medication and treatment is such a thankless task, isn't it?

    Thankless, perhaps, but lucrative.
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-30 08:37:15.0 login to vote score 1
    finnley wren: Thankless, perhaps, but lucrative.

    Especially for politicans who use the police to prevent health care competition.
    finnley wren 24 2012-05-30 08:39:05.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus: Especially for politicans who use the police to prevent health care competition.

    Nah, think the current CEOs of health care providers do far better than the politicians.
    fatsean 3838 2012-05-30 08:41:37.0 login to vote score 2
    czarangelus: Nobody says our system is good, but I'd blame government involvement from the get-go

    Health care is like a utility. It needs to be regulated, if for anything, to control local monopolies.
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-30 08:41:43.0 login to vote score 2
    finnley wren: Nah, think the current CEOs of health care providers do far better than the politicians.

    I've never heard of Kaiser Permanente sending armed soldiers and arresting people outside their guild.
    finnley wren 24 2012-05-30 08:43:19.0 login to vote score 1
    czarangelus: I've never heard of Kaiser Permanente sending armed soldiers and arresting people outside their guild.

    I've heard of them dropping drugged up and indigent patients off in the middle of the night, in the middle of the city, still wearing hospital gowns, just to get rid of them. But you're right. I've yet to hear of them using guns.
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-30 08:44:14.0 login to vote score 0
    finnley wren: I've heard of them dropping drugged up and indigent patients off in the middle of the night, in the middle of the city, still wearing hospital gowns, just to get rid of them. But you're right. I've yet to hear of them using guns.

    That is in no way "using force to prevent competition."
    finnley wren 24 2012-05-30 08:44:48.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: That is in no way "using force to prevent competition."

    So vote Republican.
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-30 08:47:07.0 login to vote score 1
    finnley wren: So vote Republican.

    What are you talking about? The AMA is a government-backed guild that leverages government violence to prevent competition, and that's all there is too it. But government is the instrument, not the corporation.
    finnley wren 24 2012-05-30 08:48:36.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: What are you talking about? The AMA is a government-backed guild that leverages government violence to prevent competition, and that's all there is too it. But government is the instrument, not the corporation.

    This thread needs moar ponies.
    finnley wren 24 2012-05-30 08:49:17.0 login to vote score 1
    These people like things just the way they are:


    flashlv 1657 2012-05-30 08:51:27.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: Health care should have never, ever been tied to employers in the first place. Of course, there was a time in our history where labor had power, and were able to bid up benefits.

    I don't see how it's tied to employers since they currently don't have to offer it.
    czarangelus 646 2012-05-30 08:51:27.0 login to vote score 0
    finnley wren: These people like things just the way they are:

    That's only 6 people.
    finnley wren 24 2012-05-30 08:52:41.0 login to vote score 0
    czarangelus: That's only 6 people.


    flashlv 1657 2012-05-30 08:53:16.0 login to vote score 0
    fatsean: When people start seeing the REAL cost of our unimpressive health care system then maybe they'll get serious about reforming it. That's my hope anyway.

    Unimpressive?
    fatsean 3838 2012-05-30 09:01:11.0 login to vote score 1
    finnley wren: These people like things just the way they are:

    Shareholders like it too.
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-05-30 09:05:51.0 login to vote score 2
    chaos: Shit, our CEO is fucking waaaaaaaaiiiiiittttttting on this opportunity.Until 2yrs ago, he hired everyone as a consultant so he could avoid all of this. Then they started growing and had to offer it to FTEs... he can't wait.


    THANKS OBAMA!!!
    eddyatwork 998 2012-05-30 09:46:42.0 login to vote score 0
    I never understood why people wanted their health coverage to be tied to their employer. An employer's first interest is in the bottom line and healthcare is expensive. It stands to reason that an employer would try to cut costs even if it means the healthcare an employee receives would be sub-standard. It also stands to reason that an employer would look at which employees cost the most to cover and quietly get rid of them for their less expensive healthier counterparts.
    farkmeblind 482 2012-05-30 10:13:04.0 login to vote score 0
    Fewer than 1/3 of medical professionals belong to the AMA. Red herringoleth.
    fatsean 3838 2012-05-30 10:14:25.0 login to vote score 0
    eddyatwork: I never understood why people wanted their health coverage to be tied to their employer. An employer's first interest is in the bottom line and healthcare is expensive. It stands to reason that an employer would try to cut costs even if it means the healthcare an employee receives would be sub-standard. It also stands to reason that an employer would look at which employees cost the most to cover and quietly get rid of them for their less expensive healthier counterparts.

    I don't think people want the employer-offered healthcare insurance because they like the idea of employers offering health care insurance. They like it because it is much cheaper than when you try to buy your own as the employers pay part of the premium. Given the two choices, people want the more affordable option.



    During World War II, workers demanded wage increases that were prohibited by wartime wage and price controls. To grant a concession to labor without violating wage and price controls, Congress exempted employer-sponsored health insurance from wage controls and income taxation—in effect allowing off-the-books raises for employees in the form of non-taxable health benefits. This created an enormous tax advantage for employer-sponsored health benefits over health insurance purchased by employees with after-tax dollars (e.g., auto insurance). By the mid-1960s employer-sponsored health benefits were almost universal.

    Source
    the sonic dildo 11340 2012-05-30 10:26:10.0 login to vote score 0
    eddyatwork: I never understood why people wanted their health coverage to be tied to their employer. .

    John McCain had a great plan to uncouple it from the employer.

    The closed minded libs and the unions refused to discuss it.
    oldfart 1558 2012-05-30 10:40:17.0 login to vote score 0
    they'll do whatever is cheaper. If they save money by dumping it, you bet they will. If they save money by offering it, you bet they will.

    Is that a problem?
    cannonhawk 849 2012-05-30 12:04:07.0 login to vote score 0
    hell yes.
    abbynormal 1917 2012-05-30 12:54:35.0 login to vote score 0
    I give up, I'm leaving this shithole of a country.
    so vote republican 6688 2012-05-30 15:00:25.0 login to vote score 0
    finnley wren: "During a recent guest spot on talk radio, a caller asked me how all the doctors will like working for the government."

    They don't seem to complain much now about 1/3 of their income being derived from public sources.


    Half of doctors don't take Medicare.
    finnley wren 24 2012-05-30 15:02:12.0 login to vote score 0
    so vote republican: Half of doctors don't take Medicare.

    Don't care. It's not the only "public source" of medical income.

    And 1/3 of all doctor's income, in the aggregate, is derived from public sources.
    so vote republican 6688 2012-05-30 15:05:32.0 login to vote score 0
    finnley wren: Don't care. It's not the only "public source" of medical income.

    And 1/3 of all doctor's income, in the aggregate, is derived from public sources.


    You referenced "all the doctors". 50% of doctors is not "all the doctors". And, is, in fact... far from it.
    finnley wren 24 2012-05-30 15:08:02.0 login to vote score 0
    so vote republican: You referenced "all the doctors". 50% of doctors is not "all the doctors". And, is, in fact... far from it.

    Don't have any idea where that "all the doctors" quote is coming from. Think you're responding to the wrong person.
    so vote republican 6688 2012-05-30 15:08:36.0 login to vote score 0
    finnley wren: "During a recent guest spot on talk radio, a caller asked me how all the doctors will like working for the government."

    They don't seem to complain much now about 1/3 of their income being derived from public sources.


    finnley wren: Don't have any idea where that "all the doctors" quote is coming from. Think you're responding to the wrong person.


    finnley wren 24 2012-05-30 15:09:16.0 login to vote score 0
    so vote republican:

    Yeah, that was a quote from the linked article.

    Kind of how it works.
    so vote republican 6688 2012-05-30 15:50:23.0 login to vote score 0
    finnley wren: Yeah, that was a quote from the linked article.

    Kind of how it works.


    Thus the term "referenced" and not "said".
    finnley wren 24 2012-05-30 15:54:43.0 login to vote score 1
    so vote republican: Thus the term "referenced" and not "said".

    Yeah, a little subtle for me. Just say what you want to say and be done with it.
    so vote republican 6688 2012-05-30 17:05:11.0 login to vote score 0
    finnley wren: Yeah, a little subtle for me. Just say what you want to say and be done with it.

    I say a lot of doctors already dislike government control.
    eddyatwork 998 2012-05-30 17:17:27.0 login to vote score 0
    so vote republican: I say a lot of doctors already dislike government control.

    I know a certain doctor who doesn't like big government.

    RON PAUL
    bunnythor 544 2012-05-30 17:19:47.0 login to vote score 1
    so vote republican: I say a lot of doctors already dislike government control.

    I say a lot of doctors tend to use anecdotes in the place of hard data.
    so vote republican 6688 2012-05-30 18:15:16.0 login to vote score 0
    bunnythor: I say a lot of doctors tend to use anecdotes in the place of hard data.

    Bawww all you like... it's the truth.

    The number of doctors refusing new Medicare patients because of low government payment rates is setting a new high, just six months before millions of Baby Boomers begin enrolling in the government health care program.
    fatsean 3838 2012-05-30 18:24:43.0 login to vote score 1
    so vote republican: Bawww all you like... it's the truth.

    The number of doctors refusing new Medicare patients because of low government payment rates is setting a new high, just six months before millions of Baby Boomers begin enrolling in the government health care program.


    Cool, Medicare will then be flush with cash by the time I need it!
    bunnythor 544 2012-05-30 18:25:15.0 login to vote score 0
    so vote republican: Bawww all you like... it's the truth.

    The number of doctors refusing new Medicare patients because of low government payment rates is setting a new high, just six months before millions of Baby Boomers begin enrolling in the government health care program.


    So "a lot" is any number between "none" and a "majority"? I imagine with a definition like that, your points are made a lot of the time.
    so vote republican 6688 2012-05-30 18:31:02.0 login to vote score 0
    bunnythor: So "a lot" is any number between "none" and a "majority"? I imagine with a definition like that, your points are made a lot of the time.

    I think "setting an all time high" counts as "a lot."

    I apologize for not being quite specific enough initially. I will take that into account in the future... thanks for the input.
    If you logged in, you could post here.