Will Employers Dump Health Insurance Coverage?
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If the portion of money they used to spend on healthcare is added to salaries, that might work. Bet they won't do that though :)
fatsean: If the portion of money they used to spend on healthcare is added to salaries, that might work. Bet they won't do that though :)
Health care should have never, ever been tied to employers in the first place. Of course, there was a time in our history where labor had power, and were able to bid up benefits.
Health care should have never, ever been tied to employers in the first place. Of course, there was a time in our history where labor had power, and were able to bid up benefits.
I hope so.
someone who may or may not be unhealthybNer
2012-05-30 08:23:31.0
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czarangelus: Health care should have never, ever been tied to employers in the first place. Of course, there was a time in our history where labor had power, and were able to bid up benefits.
I like it as a convenience, but I'm not sure that is a great thing.
I do think this is a good opportunity to start a consulting business - help people evaluate where they should get their healthcare.
CAPITALISM, I just increased the economy
I like it as a convenience, but I'm not sure that is a great thing.
I do think this is a good opportunity to start a consulting business - help people evaluate where they should get their healthcare.
CAPITALISM, I just increased the economy
czarangelus: Health care should have never, ever been tied to employers in the first place. Of course, there was a time in our history where labor had power, and were able to bid up benefits.
Indeed. Health care should have been provided and/or funded by the government for all.
Indeed. Health care should have been provided and/or funded by the government for all.
fatsean: Indeed. Health care should have been provided and/or funded by the government for all.
Why?
Why?
Shit, our CEO is fucking waaaaaaaaiiiiiittttttting on this opportunity.
Until 2yrs ago, he hired everyone as a consultant so he could avoid all of this. Then they started growing and had to offer it to FTEs... he can't wait.
Until 2yrs ago, he hired everyone as a consultant so he could avoid all of this. Then they started growing and had to offer it to FTEs... he can't wait.
eddyatwork: I hope so.
When people start seeing the REAL cost of our unimpressive health care system then maybe they'll get serious about reforming it. That's my hope anyway.
When people start seeing the REAL cost of our unimpressive health care system then maybe they'll get serious about reforming it. That's my hope anyway.
fatsean: When people start seeing the REAL cost of our unimpressive health care system then maybe they'll get serious about reforming it. That's my hope anyway.
yep
yep
"During a recent guest spot on talk radio, a caller asked me how all the doctors will like working for the government."
They don't seem to complain much now about 1/3 of their income being derived from public sources.
They don't seem to complain much now about 1/3 of their income being derived from public sources.
czarangelus: Why?
Comparing our own experience with much of the rest of the world, it would seem to be the most effective way to deliver it.
Comparing our own experience with much of the rest of the world, it would seem to be the most effective way to deliver it.
czarangelus: What works to do what?
Government provided healthcare systems are the best in the world. Ours is terrible.
Government provided healthcare systems are the best in the world. Ours is terrible.
finnley wren: Comparing our own experience with much of the rest of the world, it would seem to be the most effective way to deliver it.
fatsean: Government provided healthcare systems are the best in the world. Ours is terrible.
Nobody says our system is good, but I'd blame government involvement from the get-go
fatsean: Government provided healthcare systems are the best in the world. Ours is terrible.
Nobody says our system is good, but I'd blame government involvement from the get-go
czarangelus: Nobody says our system is good, but I'd blame government involvement from the get-go
Of course you would.
Of course you would.
finnley wren: Of course you would.
Running a cartel that denies people access to medication and treatment is such a thankless task, isn't it?
Running a cartel that denies people access to medication and treatment is such a thankless task, isn't it?
czarangelus: Running a cartel that denies people access to medication and treatment is such a thankless task, isn't it?
Thankless, perhaps, but lucrative.
Thankless, perhaps, but lucrative.
finnley wren: Thankless, perhaps, but lucrative.
Especially for politicans who use the police to prevent health care competition.
Especially for politicans who use the police to prevent health care competition.
czarangelus: Especially for politicans who use the police to prevent health care competition.
Nah, think the current CEOs of health care providers do far better than the politicians.
Nah, think the current CEOs of health care providers do far better than the politicians.
czarangelus: Nobody says our system is good, but I'd blame government involvement from the get-go
Health care is like a utility. It needs to be regulated, if for anything, to control local monopolies.
Health care is like a utility. It needs to be regulated, if for anything, to control local monopolies.
finnley wren: Nah, think the current CEOs of health care providers do far better than the politicians.
I've never heard of Kaiser Permanente sending armed soldiers and arresting people outside their guild.
I've never heard of Kaiser Permanente sending armed soldiers and arresting people outside their guild.
czarangelus: I've never heard of Kaiser Permanente sending armed soldiers and arresting people outside their guild.
I've heard of them dropping drugged up and indigent patients off in the middle of the night, in the middle of the city, still wearing hospital gowns, just to get rid of them. But you're right. I've yet to hear of them using guns.
I've heard of them dropping drugged up and indigent patients off in the middle of the night, in the middle of the city, still wearing hospital gowns, just to get rid of them. But you're right. I've yet to hear of them using guns.
finnley wren: I've heard of them dropping drugged up and indigent patients off in the middle of the night, in the middle of the city, still wearing hospital gowns, just to get rid of them. But you're right. I've yet to hear of them using guns.
That is in no way "using force to prevent competition."
That is in no way "using force to prevent competition."
finnley wren: So vote Republican.
What are you talking about? The AMA is a government-backed guild that leverages government violence to prevent competition, and that's all there is too it. But government is the instrument, not the corporation.
What are you talking about? The AMA is a government-backed guild that leverages government violence to prevent competition, and that's all there is too it. But government is the instrument, not the corporation.
czarangelus: What are you talking about? The AMA is a government-backed guild that leverages government violence to prevent competition, and that's all there is too it. But government is the instrument, not the corporation.
This thread needs moar ponies.
This thread needs moar ponies.
czarangelus: Health care should have never, ever been tied to employers in the first place. Of course, there was a time in our history where labor had power, and were able to bid up benefits.
I don't see how it's tied to employers since they currently don't have to offer it.
I don't see how it's tied to employers since they currently don't have to offer it.
fatsean: When people start seeing the REAL cost of our unimpressive health care system then maybe they'll get serious about reforming it. That's my hope anyway.
Unimpressive?
Unimpressive?
chaos: Shit, our CEO is fucking waaaaaaaaiiiiiittttttting on this opportunity.Until 2yrs ago, he hired everyone as a consultant so he could avoid all of this. Then they started growing and had to offer it to FTEs... he can't wait.
THANKS OBAMA!!!
THANKS OBAMA!!!
I never understood why people wanted their health coverage to be tied to their employer. An employer's first interest is in the bottom line and healthcare is expensive. It stands to reason that an employer would try to cut costs even if it means the healthcare an employee receives would be sub-standard. It also stands to reason that an employer would look at which employees cost the most to cover and quietly get rid of them for their less expensive healthier counterparts.
Fewer than 1/3 of medical professionals belong to the AMA. Red herringoleth.
eddyatwork: I never understood why people wanted their health coverage to be tied to their employer. An employer's first interest is in the bottom line and healthcare is expensive. It stands to reason that an employer would try to cut costs even if it means the healthcare an employee receives would be sub-standard. It also stands to reason that an employer would look at which employees cost the most to cover and quietly get rid of them for their less expensive healthier counterparts.
I don't think people want the employer-offered healthcare insurance because they like the idea of employers offering health care insurance. They like it because it is much cheaper than when you try to buy your own as the employers pay part of the premium. Given the two choices, people want the more affordable option.
During World War II, workers demanded wage increases that were prohibited by wartime wage and price controls. To grant a concession to labor without violating wage and price controls, Congress exempted employer-sponsored health insurance from wage controls and income taxation—in effect allowing off-the-books raises for employees in the form of non-taxable health benefits. This created an enormous tax advantage for employer-sponsored health benefits over health insurance purchased by employees with after-tax dollars (e.g., auto insurance). By the mid-1960s employer-sponsored health benefits were almost universal.
Source
I don't think people want the employer-offered healthcare insurance because they like the idea of employers offering health care insurance. They like it because it is much cheaper than when you try to buy your own as the employers pay part of the premium. Given the two choices, people want the more affordable option.
During World War II, workers demanded wage increases that were prohibited by wartime wage and price controls. To grant a concession to labor without violating wage and price controls, Congress exempted employer-sponsored health insurance from wage controls and income taxation—in effect allowing off-the-books raises for employees in the form of non-taxable health benefits. This created an enormous tax advantage for employer-sponsored health benefits over health insurance purchased by employees with after-tax dollars (e.g., auto insurance). By the mid-1960s employer-sponsored health benefits were almost universal.
Source
eddyatwork: I never understood why people wanted their health coverage to be tied to their employer. .
John McCain had a great plan to uncouple it from the employer.
The closed minded libs and the unions refused to discuss it.
John McCain had a great plan to uncouple it from the employer.
The closed minded libs and the unions refused to discuss it.
they'll do whatever is cheaper. If they save money by dumping it, you bet they will. If they save money by offering it, you bet they will.
Is that a problem?
Is that a problem?
hell yes.
I give up, I'm leaving this shithole of a country.
finnley wren: "During a recent guest spot on talk radio, a caller asked me how all the doctors will like working for the government."
They don't seem to complain much now about 1/3 of their income being derived from public sources.
Half of doctors don't take Medicare.
They don't seem to complain much now about 1/3 of their income being derived from public sources.
Half of doctors don't take Medicare.
so vote republican: Half of doctors don't take Medicare.
Don't care. It's not the only "public source" of medical income.
And 1/3 of all doctor's income, in the aggregate, is derived from public sources.
Don't care. It's not the only "public source" of medical income.
And 1/3 of all doctor's income, in the aggregate, is derived from public sources.
finnley wren: Don't care. It's not the only "public source" of medical income.
And 1/3 of all doctor's income, in the aggregate, is derived from public sources.
You referenced "all the doctors". 50% of doctors is not "all the doctors". And, is, in fact... far from it.
And 1/3 of all doctor's income, in the aggregate, is derived from public sources.
You referenced "all the doctors". 50% of doctors is not "all the doctors". And, is, in fact... far from it.
so vote republican: You referenced "all the doctors". 50% of doctors is not "all the doctors". And, is, in fact... far from it.
Don't have any idea where that "all the doctors" quote is coming from. Think you're responding to the wrong person.
Don't have any idea where that "all the doctors" quote is coming from. Think you're responding to the wrong person.
finnley wren: "During a recent guest spot on talk radio, a caller asked me how all the doctors will like working for the government."
They don't seem to complain much now about 1/3 of their income being derived from public sources.
finnley wren: Don't have any idea where that "all the doctors" quote is coming from. Think you're responding to the wrong person.
They don't seem to complain much now about 1/3 of their income being derived from public sources.
finnley wren: Don't have any idea where that "all the doctors" quote is coming from. Think you're responding to the wrong person.
finnley wren: Yeah, that was a quote from the linked article.
Kind of how it works.
Thus the term "referenced" and not "said".
Kind of how it works.
Thus the term "referenced" and not "said".
so vote republican: Thus the term "referenced" and not "said".
Yeah, a little subtle for me. Just say what you want to say and be done with it.
Yeah, a little subtle for me. Just say what you want to say and be done with it.
finnley wren: Yeah, a little subtle for me. Just say what you want to say and be done with it.
I say a lot of doctors already dislike government control.
I say a lot of doctors already dislike government control.
so vote republican: I say a lot of doctors already dislike government control.
I know a certain doctor who doesn't like big government.
RON PAUL
I know a certain doctor who doesn't like big government.
RON PAUL
so vote republican: I say a lot of doctors already dislike government control.
I say a lot of doctors tend to use anecdotes in the place of hard data.
I say a lot of doctors tend to use anecdotes in the place of hard data.
bunnythor: I say a lot of doctors tend to use anecdotes in the place of hard data.
Bawww all you like... it's the truth.
The number of doctors refusing new Medicare patients because of low government payment rates is setting a new high, just six months before millions of Baby Boomers begin enrolling in the government health care program.
Bawww all you like... it's the truth.
The number of doctors refusing new Medicare patients because of low government payment rates is setting a new high, just six months before millions of Baby Boomers begin enrolling in the government health care program.
so vote republican: Bawww all you like... it's the truth.
The number of doctors refusing new Medicare patients because of low government payment rates is setting a new high, just six months before millions of Baby Boomers begin enrolling in the government health care program.
Cool, Medicare will then be flush with cash by the time I need it!
The number of doctors refusing new Medicare patients because of low government payment rates is setting a new high, just six months before millions of Baby Boomers begin enrolling in the government health care program.
Cool, Medicare will then be flush with cash by the time I need it!
so vote republican: Bawww all you like... it's the truth.
The number of doctors refusing new Medicare patients because of low government payment rates is setting a new high, just six months before millions of Baby Boomers begin enrolling in the government health care program.
So "a lot" is any number between "none" and a "majority"? I imagine with a definition like that, your points are made a lot of the time.
The number of doctors refusing new Medicare patients because of low government payment rates is setting a new high, just six months before millions of Baby Boomers begin enrolling in the government health care program.
So "a lot" is any number between "none" and a "majority"? I imagine with a definition like that, your points are made a lot of the time.
bunnythor: So "a lot" is any number between "none" and a "majority"? I imagine with a definition like that, your points are made a lot of the time.
I think "setting an all time high" counts as "a lot."
I apologize for not being quite specific enough initially. I will take that into account in the future... thanks for the input.
I think "setting an all time high" counts as "a lot."
I apologize for not being quite specific enough initially. I will take that into account in the future... thanks for the input.
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