FBI says it's ok to steal Megaupload files, because nothing physical was taken, only digital
Comment 0
Cool
vote cool
vote uncool
Terms of Service Violation
strike inappropriate
not inappropriate
Other
sunlight
get permlink
Cool
|
Tagged with : copyright genocide , make wat not war What are tags? |
So the FBI is what's responsible for the death of the movie industry...?
Wait, isn't this exactly the strawman argument Flash always uses....?
I guess that means flash won't be able to sue them for stealing his argument either, since he made it digitally :/
quick1: I guess that means flash won't be able to sue them for stealing his argument either, since he made it digitally :/
I guess this means that the FBI thinks piracy isn't stealing :/
\Would someone mind copypastaing the text? I can't hit that domain from this network
I guess this means that the FBI thinks piracy isn't stealing :/
\Would someone mind copypastaing the text? I can't hit that domain from this network
muninsfire: I guess this means that the FBI thinks piracy isn't stealing :/
Would someone mind copypastaing the text? I can't hit that domain from this network
In New Zealand Dotcom’s legal team continues the battle over data that was seized from his home.
Dotcom’s lawyer Mr. Akel argues that the FBI illegally copied data from his computers, to send it to the U.S.
“The first [copies] were sent without the New Zealand Police having any say in it whatsoever,” he said quoted by Stuff.
“If [they] went offshore without the consent of the attorney-general, it was an illegal act.”
However, according to Crown’s lawyer, no harm was done because the evidence in question is “not physical” and therefore not covered by the relevant legislation.
“[Information] may be the most valuable thing we have, but it is not scooped up by the act,” he said. “Nothing of the physical items have gone overseas and that was our undertaking.”
A strange but interesting argument, since the entire case against Megaupload is built on evidence that’s not physical.
Whether Judge Winkelmann will agree with this argument has yet to be seen.
Would someone mind copypastaing the text? I can't hit that domain from this network
In New Zealand Dotcom’s legal team continues the battle over data that was seized from his home.
Dotcom’s lawyer Mr. Akel argues that the FBI illegally copied data from his computers, to send it to the U.S.
“The first [copies] were sent without the New Zealand Police having any say in it whatsoever,” he said quoted by Stuff.
“If [they] went offshore without the consent of the attorney-general, it was an illegal act.”
However, according to Crown’s lawyer, no harm was done because the evidence in question is “not physical” and therefore not covered by the relevant legislation.
“[Information] may be the most valuable thing we have, but it is not scooped up by the act,” he said. “Nothing of the physical items have gone overseas and that was our undertaking.”
A strange but interesting argument, since the entire case against Megaupload is built on evidence that’s not physical.
Whether Judge Winkelmann will agree with this argument has yet to be seen.
impasse: You're guilty of 187 counts of copyright genocide.
It only takes 3 people to 187 my post. :/
It only takes 3 people to 187 my post. :/
osirisothedead: A strange but interesting argument, since the entire case against Megaupload is built on evidence that’s not physical.
The ones and zeros on Megaupload's hard drives are indeed physical.
The ones and zeros on Megaupload's hard drives are indeed physical.
finnley wren: The ones and zeros on Megaupload's hard drives are indeed physical.
No they're not.
The 1s and 0s are utterly indistinguishable from each other in all ways except the alignment of their respective magnetic fields...but even if you want to argue that magnetic field patterns constitute a physical change, the patterns are not going to be identical to those on the source media, regardless of what it was.
\And if the source media was optical, they'll bear zero resemblence at all.
No they're not.
The 1s and 0s are utterly indistinguishable from each other in all ways except the alignment of their respective magnetic fields...but even if you want to argue that magnetic field patterns constitute a physical change, the patterns are not going to be identical to those on the source media, regardless of what it was.
\And if the source media was optical, they'll bear zero resemblence at all.
muninsfire: No they're not.
The 1s and 0s are utterly indistinguishable from each other in all ways except
And with that logic, you've just sounded the death knell for DNA evidence as well.
The 1s and 0s are utterly indistinguishable from each other in all ways except
And with that logic, you've just sounded the death knell for DNA evidence as well.
finnley wren: And with that logic, you've just sounded the death knell for DNA evidence as well.
DNA is digital?
DNA is digital?
finnley wren: And with that logic, you've just sounded the death knell for DNA evidence as well.
Not quite. The base pairs in DNA have a different physical shape and nature: adenosine doesn't look like cytosine, for instance.
Not quite. The base pairs in DNA have a different physical shape and nature: adenosine doesn't look like cytosine, for instance.
That was my argument the other day. Nothing was stolen from the legit users of Megaupload.
I also don't understand why people think they have a right to their files considering that the TOS ofr that site doesn't guarantee them access and can cut their access at any time.
I also don't understand why people think they have a right to their files considering that the TOS ofr that site doesn't guarantee them access and can cut their access at any time.
muninsfire: Wait, isn't this exactly the strawman argument Flash always uses....?
how is that a strawman argument?
how is that a strawman argument?
quick1: I guess that means flash won't be able to sue them for stealing his argument either, since he made it digitally :/
That's your argument though, that piracy isn't stealing.
That's your argument though, that piracy isn't stealing.
muninsfire: Not quite. The base pairs in DNA have a different physical shape and nature: adenosine doesn't look like cytosine, for instance.
But both you and I have both. They're just arranged differently.
In the same manner that "Star Wars" is arranged differently from "Titanic."
But both you and I have both. They're just arranged differently.
In the same manner that "Star Wars" is arranged differently from "Titanic."
finnley wren: As is the surface of a hard drive.
Yes, and the surface of the hard drive is not data.
Yes, and the surface of the hard drive is not data.
impasse: Yes, and the surface of the hard drive is not data.
Time will tell. A jury will decide if there was any data on the hard drives at Megaupload.
Perhaps they're indeed blank.
Time will tell. A jury will decide if there was any data on the hard drives at Megaupload.
Perhaps they're indeed blank.
finnley wren: But both you and I have both. They're just arranged differently.In the same manner that "Star Wars" is arranged differently from "Titanic."
The physical composition on disc of Star Wars and Titanic is the same.
That is not true for DNA, as you can--slowly--read off the bases with a suffiently powerful electron microscope, given there is a physical difference in the appearance of the base pairs.
The physical composition on disc of Star Wars and Titanic is the same.
That is not true for DNA, as you can--slowly--read off the bases with a suffiently powerful electron microscope, given there is a physical difference in the appearance of the base pairs.
muninsfire: The physical composition on disc of Star Wars and Titanic is the same.
Think the ones and zeros are arranged quite differently between the two.
But I have faith in juries.
Think the ones and zeros are arranged quite differently between the two.
But I have faith in juries.
finnley wren: Think the ones and zeros are arranged quite differently between the two.But I have faith in juries.
You cannot inspect a disc and determine the arrangement of ones and zeroes.
And there is no jury in this case.
You cannot inspect a disc and determine the arrangement of ones and zeroes.
And there is no jury in this case.
finnley wren: Think the ones and zeros are arranged quite differently between the two.
But I have faith in juries.
Hopefully they know what "hyper treading multi language" is.
But I have faith in juries.
Hopefully they know what "hyper treading multi language" is.
You cannot inspect a disc and determine the arrangement of ones and zeroes.
Nope. Like with DNA, you use machines to do that.
And there is no jury in this case.
Judge, then.
Nope. Like with DNA, you use machines to do that.
And there is no jury in this case.
Judge, then.
muninsfire: Well, not anymore it ain't, apparently: the FBI uses it.
But isn't that what you guys have been saying about digital data?
But isn't that what you guys have been saying about digital data?
finnley wren: You cannot inspect a disc and determine the arrangement of ones and zeroes.Nope. Like with DNA, you use machines to do that.And there is no jury in this case.Judge, then.
The machines do not, in the case of hard discs, measure physical changes: the informational change is the interaction of magnetic fields and the encoding schemae of the disc controller. There is no physically unique structure on disc; without the specific model drive controller card, there is no information: the retrieval is dependent upon the specific kind of machine to read it.
DNA has a physical difference in that physically unique compounds are arranged to form the informational content. This encoding is independent of the method of reading it, whether through electrophoresis, electron microscope inspection, or cloning it to see what comes out.
Both DNA and hard discs carry information, but only one--DNA--has a -physical- difference between bits.
The machines do not, in the case of hard discs, measure physical changes: the informational change is the interaction of magnetic fields and the encoding schemae of the disc controller. There is no physically unique structure on disc; without the specific model drive controller card, there is no information: the retrieval is dependent upon the specific kind of machine to read it.
DNA has a physical difference in that physically unique compounds are arranged to form the informational content. This encoding is independent of the method of reading it, whether through electrophoresis, electron microscope inspection, or cloning it to see what comes out.
Both DNA and hard discs carry information, but only one--DNA--has a -physical- difference between bits.
flashlv: But isn't that what you guys have been saying about digital data?
Nope :/ That was all you :/
Nope :/ That was all you :/
muninsfire: The machines do not, in the case of hard discs, measure physical changes: the informational change is the interaction of magnetic fields and the encoding schemae of the disc controller. There is no physically unique structure on disc; without the specific model drive controller card, there is no information: the retrieval is dependent upon the specific kind of machine to read it.
DNA has a physical difference in that physically unique compounds are arranged to form the informational content. This encoding is independent of the method of reading it, whether through electrophoresis, electron microscope inspection, or cloning it to see what comes out.
Both DNA and hard discs carry information, but only one--DNA--has a -physical- difference between bits.
Obfuscation. But perhaps the judge will buy it. Think it would be wise to have a fallback defense, though.
DNA has a physical difference in that physically unique compounds are arranged to form the informational content. This encoding is independent of the method of reading it, whether through electrophoresis, electron microscope inspection, or cloning it to see what comes out.
Both DNA and hard discs carry information, but only one--DNA--has a -physical- difference between bits.
Obfuscation. But perhaps the judge will buy it. Think it would be wise to have a fallback defense, though.
finnley wren: Obfuscation. But perhaps the judge will buy it. Think it would be wise to have a fallback defense, though.
Fuck do I care about what the judge thinks?
I'm just annoyed you said that 1s and 0s are physical.
Fuck do I care about what the judge thinks?
I'm just annoyed you said that 1s and 0s are physical.
muninsfire: Fuck do I care about what the judge thinks?
I'm just annoyed you said that 1s and 0s are physical.
They are physical. Magnetism isn't a physical phenomenon? It's not magic.
I'm just annoyed you said that 1s and 0s are physical.
They are physical. Magnetism isn't a physical phenomenon? It's not magic.
muninsfire: Fuck do I care about what the judge thinks?
Thought I remembered you being involved in something similar, and assumed you might have a dog in this fight. Apologies if I assumed too much.
I'm just annoyed you said that 1s and 0s are physical.
Magnetism is indeed a physical property.
Thought I remembered you being involved in something similar, and assumed you might have a dog in this fight. Apologies if I assumed too much.
I'm just annoyed you said that 1s and 0s are physical.
Magnetism is indeed a physical property.
abt12monk: They are physical. Magnetism isn't a physical phenomenon? It's not magic.
I store all of my free shit on my unicorn drive.
I store all of my free shit on my unicorn drive.
muninsfire: Nope :/ That was all you :/
I have been the only person saying downloading isn't stealing?
War?
I have been the only person saying downloading isn't stealing?
War?
abt12monk: They are physical. Magnetism isn't a physical phenomenon? It's not magic.
The direction of the electron orbits has nothing to do with the physical composition of the disc.
Now, if he was talking about CDs, which are encoded with a pattern of pits--a physical difference--that's another story.
The direction of the electron orbits has nothing to do with the physical composition of the disc.
Now, if he was talking about CDs, which are encoded with a pattern of pits--a physical difference--that's another story.
finnley wren: Fuck do I care about what the judge thinks?Thought I remembered you being involved in something similar, and assumed you might have a dog in this fight. Apologies if I assumed too much.I'm just annoyed you said that 1s and 0s are physical.Magnetism is indeed a physical property.
Magnetism of the disc surface is the pattern of electron orbitals--there's no physical change in the structure of the disc.
Magnetism of the disc surface is the pattern of electron orbitals--there's no physical change in the structure of the disc.
flashlv: I have been the only person saying downloading isn't stealing?War?
It's kind of funny when you deliberately play stupid.
It's kind of funny when you deliberately play stupid.
muninsfire: Magnetism of the disc surface is the pattern of electron orbitals--there's no physical change in the structure of the disc.
Electrons are physical too.
Electrons are physical too.
finnley wren: Electrons are physical too.
But the direction of their orbit is not: that's informational.
\And actually, electrons may or may not be physical, depending on how you measure 'em ;-þ
But the direction of their orbit is not: that's informational.
\And actually, electrons may or may not be physical, depending on how you measure 'em ;-þ
muninsfire: But the direction of their orbit is not: that's informational.
And actually, electrons may or may not be physical, depending on how you measure 'em ;-þ
Electrons are matter. Matter is physical.
/thus ends my participation in this thread, which will surely next debate how many angels fit on the head of a pin.
And actually, electrons may or may not be physical, depending on how you measure 'em ;-þ
Electrons are matter. Matter is physical.
/thus ends my participation in this thread, which will surely next debate how many angels fit on the head of a pin.
muninsfire: The direction of the electron orbits has nothing to do with the physical composition of the disc.
Now, if he was talking about CDs, which are encoded with a pattern of pits--a physical difference--that's another story.
I don't see that the distinction is relevant or consistent with reality.
Matter is energy, and vice-versa. The position of a particle is just a number, the same way as the orientation of its spin is.
And the only reason a specific controller hard and drive head mechanism are needed for a given disk is because there's no standard for that. It's certainly conceivable that hard drive encoding could have been standardized the same way compact discs were.
Now, if he was talking about CDs, which are encoded with a pattern of pits--a physical difference--that's another story.
I don't see that the distinction is relevant or consistent with reality.
Matter is energy, and vice-versa. The position of a particle is just a number, the same way as the orientation of its spin is.
And the only reason a specific controller hard and drive head mechanism are needed for a given disk is because there's no standard for that. It's certainly conceivable that hard drive encoding could have been standardized the same way compact discs were.
finnley wren: Electrons are matter. Matter is physical./thus ends my participation in this thread, which will surely next debate how many angels fit on the head of a pin.
Electrons are defined by wave functions and can sometimes be measured as matter, yes.
Their orbital pattern, however, is not matter--and is accordingly not physical.
\Feynman FTW
Electrons are defined by wave functions and can sometimes be measured as matter, yes.
Their orbital pattern, however, is not matter--and is accordingly not physical.
\Feynman FTW
muninsfire: It's kind of funny when you deliberately play stupid.
Meant Wat, not war.
How is this playing stupid? I have always said that illegally downloading protected music and videos is stealing.
Meant Wat, not war.
How is this playing stupid? I have always said that illegally downloading protected music and videos is stealing.
abt12monk: I don't see that the distinction is relevant or consistent with reality.Matter is energy, and vice-versa. The position of a particle is just a number, the same way as the orientation of its spin is.And the only reason a specific controller hard and drive head mechanism are needed for a given disk is because there's no standard for that. It's certainly conceivable that hard drive encoding could have been standardized the same way compact discs were.
Coulda woulda shoulda ;-þ
Yes, matter and energy are equivalent, but that's not relevant here--the informational content of the hard disc is independent of the arrangement of matter on and in the disc itself; the informational content depends upon specific electron orbital patterns, patterns which are not defined by said physical structure--evidenced by the fact that the information can decay and be lost without any change in the physical structure of the disc.
There is, on a hard disc, no physical difference between the 1s and the 0s.
Coulda woulda shoulda ;-þ
Yes, matter and energy are equivalent, but that's not relevant here--the informational content of the hard disc is independent of the arrangement of matter on and in the disc itself; the informational content depends upon specific electron orbital patterns, patterns which are not defined by said physical structure--evidenced by the fact that the information can decay and be lost without any change in the physical structure of the disc.
There is, on a hard disc, no physical difference between the 1s and the 0s.
flashlv: Meant Wat, not war.How is this playing stupid? I have always said that illegally downloading protected music and videos is stealing.
And you've always characterized any opposing argument with the argument the FBI uses--an argument that, up until today, nobody actually opposing your point of view has used.
But you're now in opposition to the FBI, so that amuses me.
And you've always characterized any opposing argument with the argument the FBI uses--an argument that, up until today, nobody actually opposing your point of view has used.
But you're now in opposition to the FBI, so that amuses me.
muninsfire: Electrons are defined by wave functions and can sometimes be measured as matter, yes.
Their orbital pattern, however, is not matter--and is accordingly not physical.
Feynman FTW
I don't think that's quite what Feynman said or meant.
You have a really strange definition of what is or isn't physical. If it's not physical, it's just an idea.
Electron spin must be a physical property if it ends up having physical manifestations.
Their orbital pattern, however, is not matter--and is accordingly not physical.
Feynman FTW
I don't think that's quite what Feynman said or meant.
You have a really strange definition of what is or isn't physical. If it's not physical, it's just an idea.
Electron spin must be a physical property if it ends up having physical manifestations.
muninsfire: There is, on a hard disc, no physical difference between the 1s and the 0s.
All I'm saying is that a physicist or hard drive engineer would disagree with you.
All I'm saying is that a physicist or hard drive engineer would disagree with you.
wren has gone full UT/flash.
abt12monk: All I'm saying is that a physicist or hard drive engineer would disagree with you.
You're stretching the definition of 'physical' out to nonclassical situations; you can't really define 'physical' on a quantum scale, now ;-þ
abt12monk: I don't think that's quite what Feynman said or meant.You have a really strange definition of what is or isn't physical. If it's not physical, it's just an idea.Electron spin must be a physical property if it ends up having physical manifestations.
Information is "just an idea", ain't it?
The vector of an electron is not a physical property--it's an artifact of the coordinate system you're using to measure it. The electron iteself does not change when the vector does.
You're stretching the definition of 'physical' out to nonclassical situations; you can't really define 'physical' on a quantum scale, now ;-þ
abt12monk: I don't think that's quite what Feynman said or meant.You have a really strange definition of what is or isn't physical. If it's not physical, it's just an idea.Electron spin must be a physical property if it ends up having physical manifestations.
Information is "just an idea", ain't it?
The vector of an electron is not a physical property--it's an artifact of the coordinate system you're using to measure it. The electron iteself does not change when the vector does.
muninsfire: And you've always characterized any opposing argument with the argument the FBI uses--an argument that, up until today, nobody actually opposing your point of view has used.But you're now in opposition to the FBI, so that amuses me.
Why would that amuse you? Are you one of the ones that confuses my hatred for crime, criminals and alleged criminals as blindly supporting the police?
Why would that amuse you? Are you one of the ones that confuses my hatred for crime, criminals and alleged criminals as blindly supporting the police?
Why does anyone have the right to any of their data if the TOS of their system doesn't guarantee it?
flashlv: Why does anyone have the right to any of their data if the TOS of their system doesn't guarantee it?
That strikes me as a silly question. Say you leave your phone over at a friend's house and they refuse to give it back because they didn't guarantee return of your property when you went to their place. Is that right? No, it's dumb.
That strikes me as a silly question. Say you leave your phone over at a friend's house and they refuse to give it back because they didn't guarantee return of your property when you went to their place. Is that right? No, it's dumb.
Make wat not war
flashlv: Are you one of the ones that confuses my hatred for crime, criminals and alleged criminals
Pirate anything lately?
Heh.
Pirate anything lately?
Heh.
cannonhawk: wren has gone full UT/flash.
Seems to be the accusation anytime someone disagrees with the bN herd.
Seems to be the accusation anytime someone disagrees with the bN herd.
finnley wren: Seems to be the accusation anytime someone disagrees with the bN herd.
No, just when the argument comes down to one niggling little detail. Electron orbitals are about as niggling as you can get.
No, just when the argument comes down to one niggling little detail. Electron orbitals are about as niggling as you can get.
osirisothedead: No, just when the argument comes down to one niggling little detail. Electron orbitals are about as niggling as you can get.
Then you missed the insightful "the sky isn't really blue" discussion of a few weeks ago.
bN: We know pedantry
Then you missed the insightful "the sky isn't really blue" discussion of a few weeks ago.
bN: We know pedantry
finnley wren: Then you missed the insightful "the sky isn't really blue" discussion of a few weeks ago.
bN: We know pedantry
That I did, and that we do.
bN: We know pedantry
That I did, and that we do.
muninsfire: You're stretching the definition of 'physical' out to nonclassical situations; you can't really define 'physical' on a quantum scale, now ;-þ
But everything is made up of particles that only have quantum properties. If nothing is physical at quantum scales, then nothing is physical.
muninsfire: The vector of an electron is not a physical property--it's an artifact of the coordinate system you're using to measure it. The electron iteself does not change when the vector does.
You're looking at it the wrong way. If the electron changes, the vector describing its properties, not the other way around.
But everything is made up of particles that only have quantum properties. If nothing is physical at quantum scales, then nothing is physical.
muninsfire: The vector of an electron is not a physical property--it's an artifact of the coordinate system you're using to measure it. The electron iteself does not change when the vector does.
You're looking at it the wrong way. If the electron changes, the vector describing its properties, not the other way around.
osirisothedead: That strikes me as a silly question. Say you leave your phone over at a friend's house and they refuse to give it back because they didn't guarantee return of your property when you went to their place. Is that right? No, it's dumb.
Their TOS for Megaupload doesn't offer any guarantee for anyone being able to access their data. Why would it change just because a 3rd party got involved?
Their TOS for Megaupload doesn't offer any guarantee for anyone being able to access their data. Why would it change just because a 3rd party got involved?
finnley wren: Seems to be the accusation anytime someone disagrees with the bN herd.
You just have to stay with the herd. I'm not a follower, and that's why I don't fit in well.
You just have to stay with the herd. I'm not a follower, and that's why I don't fit in well.
abt12monk: But everything is made up of particles that only have quantum properties. If nothing is physical at quantum scales, then nothing is physical.You're looking at it the wrong way. If the electron changes, the vector describing its properties, not the other way around.
Nothing's physical? That's one interpretation, I suppose--or you could recognize that classical mechanics emerges as the amalgamation of the statistical mean of quantum interactions....
Also, the electron itself doesn't change. The orbital pattern may differ, but that's not a change in the electron.
flashlv: Why would that amuse you?
Many things amuse me, little fella. Many things amuse me.
Nothing's physical? That's one interpretation, I suppose--or you could recognize that classical mechanics emerges as the amalgamation of the statistical mean of quantum interactions....
Also, the electron itself doesn't change. The orbital pattern may differ, but that's not a change in the electron.
flashlv: Why would that amuse you?
Many things amuse me, little fella. Many things amuse me.
flashlv: Their TOS for Megaupload doesn't offer any guarantee for anyone being able to access their data. Why would it change just because a 3rd party got involved?
There's nothing about a Whine to Grahams button in the TOS, either.
There's nothing about a Whine to Grahams button in the TOS, either.
quick1: There's nothing about a Whine to Grahams button in the TOS, either.
That's a feature to combat the assholes.
That's a feature to combat the assholes.
muninsfire: Nothing's physical? That's one interpretation, I suppose--or you could recognize that classical mechanics emerges as the amalgamation of the statistical mean of quantum interactions....
I didn't say I actually believed nothing was physical. It was just the logical conclusion of what you said.
Classical mechanics is just a limited interpretation of quantum mechanics, and quantum mechanics is what actually physically occurs. And classical mechanics is shown time and time again to be straight up wrong.
I didn't say I actually believed nothing was physical. It was just the logical conclusion of what you said.
Classical mechanics is just a limited interpretation of quantum mechanics, and quantum mechanics is what actually physically occurs. And classical mechanics is shown time and time again to be straight up wrong.
ITT: Math. Not even once.
abt12monk: I didn't say I actually believed nothing was physical. It was just the logical conclusion of what you said.Classical mechanics is just a limited interpretation of quantum mechanics, and quantum mechanics is what actually physically occurs. And classical mechanics is shown time and time again to be straight up wrong.
With you, except for one little thing--
"physical" is really a classical mechanics description. It kinda loses meaning when you dig down to where we're talking about. Saying that something "physically" occurs is kinda misleading.
With you, except for one little thing--
"physical" is really a classical mechanics description. It kinda loses meaning when you dig down to where we're talking about. Saying that something "physically" occurs is kinda misleading.
finnley wren: Electrons are matter. Matter is physical.
/thus ends my participation in this thread, which will surely next debate how many angels fit on the head of a pin.
Whew, for a minute there I thought mini-UT was just gonna shit up the thread for hours.
/thus ends my participation in this thread, which will surely next debate how many angels fit on the head of a pin.
Whew, for a minute there I thought mini-UT was just gonna shit up the thread for hours.
muninsfire: With you, except for one little thing--
"physical" is really a classical mechanics description. It kinda loses meaning when you dig down to where we're talking about. Saying that something "physically" occurs is kinda misleading.
Then you're saying physical reality is an illusion. If quantum mechanics isn't physically real, then nothing is physically real.
The same way as if electrons don't have free will, then nothing has free will.
"physical" is really a classical mechanics description. It kinda loses meaning when you dig down to where we're talking about. Saying that something "physically" occurs is kinda misleading.
Then you're saying physical reality is an illusion. If quantum mechanics isn't physically real, then nothing is physically real.
The same way as if electrons don't have free will, then nothing has free will.
abt12monk: Then you're saying physical reality is an illusion. If quantum mechanics isn't physically real, then nothing is physically real.The same way as if electrons don't have free will, then nothing has free will.
It'd be -so- easy to go crazypants here...
That which you call 'physical reality' is an emergent property of the interaction of a very large number of quantum processes.
The combination of things can exhibit properties that the component things do not--the example of an explosive metal and a poison gas forming a nutritional supplement in combination is a trivial example.
Thus, you can have "unreal" things make "real" things in sufficient numbers.
\And I'm not going anywhere near 'free will' as that's ponylicious
It'd be -so- easy to go crazypants here...
That which you call 'physical reality' is an emergent property of the interaction of a very large number of quantum processes.
The combination of things can exhibit properties that the component things do not--the example of an explosive metal and a poison gas forming a nutritional supplement in combination is a trivial example.
Thus, you can have "unreal" things make "real" things in sufficient numbers.
\And I'm not going anywhere near 'free will' as that's ponylicious
abt12monk: Then you're saying physical reality is an illusion. If quantum mechanics isn't physically real, then nothing is physically real.
The same way as if electrons don't have free will, then nothing has free will.
RUSH does.
The same way as if electrons don't have free will, then nothing has free will.
RUSH does.
paranoyd: Whew, for a minute there I thought mini-UT was just gonna shit up the thread for hours.
Wasn't gonna happen. Thanks for your thoughtful contributions to the thread, though.
Wasn't gonna happen. Thanks for your thoughtful contributions to the thread, though.
finnley wren: Wasn't gonna happen. Thanks for your thoughtful contributions to the thread, though.
You are welcome.
You are welcome.
finnley wren: Seems to be the accusation anytime someone disagrees with the bN herd.
I feel bad now that I see flash cool voted me.
I feel bad now that I see flash cool voted me.
flashlv: Why would that amuse you? Are you one of the ones that confuses my hatred for crime, criminals and alleged criminals as blindly supporting the police?
You admitted to piracy and consuming illegally imported meat. That makes you a criminal.
Do you hate yourself?
You admitted to piracy and consuming illegally imported meat. That makes you a criminal.
Do you hate yourself?
osirisothedead: That strikes me as a silly question. Say you leave your phone over at a friend's house and they refuse to give it back because they didn't guarantee return of your property when you went to their place. Is that right? No, it's dumb.
Lol. This proves that flash thinks that all digital content downloaded is piracy, even if you own the data.
Lol. This proves that flash thinks that all digital content downloaded is piracy, even if you own the data.
someone who may or may not be unabomber
2012-06-08 11:42:25.0
login to vote
score 0
flashlv: You just have to stay with the herd. I'm not a follower, and that's why I don't fit in well.
Yeah, I know what you mean, brother. I decided not to follow the herd and I was punished for it.
Yeah, I know what you mean, brother. I decided not to follow the herd and I was punished for it.
flashlv: I have been the only person saying downloading isn't stealing?
War?
What if I downloaded a song from iTunes that I have purchased. Is that stealing?
War?
What if I downloaded a song from iTunes that I have purchased. Is that stealing?
If you logged in, you could post here.